What if the flashback Guts experienced of Gaiseric's past was not a previous completed Godhand but Void and the four elemental kings?

[MetalChimera]

In Buddhism Void is considered an element and I do not believe this to be coincidental. Read this please

the godai five elemental manifestations of physical matter. Chi, or the earth, symbolizes solid matter. Sui, the water, symbolizes liquids. Ka, the fire, is the symbol of combustion, or the elements in an energy-releasing state. Fu, the wind, symbolizes gases. Ku, the void, is representative of the formless subatomic energy that is the basis for the structure of all things. This godai symbolism is also used to describe the emotional nature of human beings, and to provide a symbolic structure for the teaching of effective physical combat principles in ninjutsu.

— Stephen K. Hayes[7]

If there were only four elemental kings but this element clearly existed, maybe there was some reason for there to be no spirit to govern it... because that element in itself binds matter, it is the source of human feelings, their soul, or free will which a spirit to be a king of this element would completely support the IOE's 'Do as thou wilt' ideal and Void before he became Void, ideally he probably was that 'Vid' character that was the father of the being that Gaiseric's revenant the Skull Knight spoke with. What does this have to do with the elemental kings though? Its a perfect reason for Vid, which is who I believe Void once was to summon them as tools to empower his own development into a figure on par with one of their own.

I believe it would've taken their power collectively to level that kingdom and the more souls branded during the ceemony the more power the apostle or Godhand. I think well, the elemental kings causing natural disasters left and right wiping out an empire is a hell of a lot of souls therefore Void has a hell of a lot of power. I think the elemental kings don't necessarily align themselves as good or bad and they could of been manipulated into destroying the kingdom since this type of magic would be meddled with. I believe his followers or theoretical cult as he undoubtedly had to have some form of one, which is why there was a set of bodies with the brand burned onto their foreheads as preparation or even failed attempts by Void in the past.

Now here is where my theory slightly delves into the fan fiction ball park so I'll write it a bit more vaguely, I think some experimentation and failed experimentation at that. would've caused Gaiseric to lock Void into the tower. But, here is where I'm being to specific but what if he couldn't create Godhand level beings with this element but some of the earliest apostles formed from individual sacrifices which could be another reason Gaiseric locked him away, Or some negative astral entity doing damage with immense power may have been why they, If they are the elemental kings, were summoned to stop this magic practice but once the kingdom was branded the way it was in the image of the past, they ended up wiping it all out. Void's past life, to some degree could of lead to the summoning of the Elemental kings, and it could of been turned around on Gaiseric big time, and his dear followers as well.


Now, here is how I think this element and his character and I vaguely believe there was a quote by Miura saying, 'It all has to do with Void' which would make sense if he were trying to eradicate the type of magic that enlightens humans and empowers them with the will to control their lives and wisdom of the physical and astral world and the elements that govern it. I think it'd be key piece on the board that could lead to checkmate if the idea of evil had its own element and king of that element Void involved in the world, the IOE's own human emperor to govern mankind directly,

(Femto speaking of that evil and terrifying piece of art, I don't know what it is but when I woke up to the advent and the rape scene as an adult in his early twenties I was scared of his form, but anyway I looked into his name, in a certain language femte means five and he's the fifth member therefore his name is Femto. A lot of people in the forums, and on YouTube don't know why he's called Femto and I'm just lucky to have found out that femte meant five I think in Norwegian or a European language, that was a quick sidenote.)

I was talking about governing mankind directly, or something. Once again, do as thou wilt, IOE picks wisely, Femto wants a kingdom, once again a king, and Guts said he'd only sore higher, an empire over the world on the physical and astral level, perhaps controlling suffering through dictatorship or the world on an elemental level and Void being just that wiping out the place or power of the spirits influence by destroying trees, creating fantasia and then giving the elemental kings less power which why they would of been there to witness his initial status as their equal a Godhand Gaiseric remembers being there to destroy not help his Kingdom that he brought together.

See, they would slowly after this point lose their influence on humanity and as spirits humans could rely on they were destroyed by Void if this idea is remotely correct, not necessarily violently, but destroy belief in their own significance. distort the history of the events so people will see them as destructive beings angry beings. He can then replace elemental kings with kings of plagues, desires and all of these different aspects of Void. Femto with Falconia, just like void the element brings matter together he is bringing humans into one place. and replace each of the others in their own unique way. On one physical body, a peninsula, no boats, no windy days over those walls if it can save them from dragons then I doubt it can be burned down and with his army he's following not only the character Void but building human emotions and affecting their souls directly with the cause of being trapped by force therefore more negative feelings


The aspect in which it explains the binding of matter itself and the emotional nature of human beings completely consist with the nature of the eclipse and any other ceremony in which the Godhand form. if Void was a magician who wanted to delve deeper into another element that would enable the Godhand to better control the cause and effect nature of human suffering then this element would be perfect, therefore in his ascension he would have sacrificed his followers, and then branded the entire kingdom and the beings that comprise the vortex of souls from the beginning, in which it looks as if it were being created during Gaiseric's memory not like an eclipse, the summoning of the elemental kings would be a great method to wipe it off the face of the earth and directly use their elemental magic to eradicate the center of human order, and an empire built on blood but brought upon peace. These four elemental kings would have been summoned as Void ascended and the sacrifice of the branded city would complete his transcendental form, due to the fact that he and Gaiseric ideally were close at some point and the empire would have mattered to him at one point or another.

What would of caused Void in his previous life to reach despair and the end of his ambitions? Similar to Griffith he may be the being in the story told during the conviction arch, the mage locked in the tower and tortured His work would of been taken away from him and his previous contact with the IOE which through influence on Void's past life he lead to more cause resulting in the effect of misery, suffering and evil. This all leads me to believe Void is a member of the Godhand who is the most powerful due to the number of sacrifices, his innovation of this type of magic and attempt to become the elemental king of Void itself. In the way that Schierke can summon a water Spirit or Serpico uses wind spirits, those are lesser powerful spirits compared to the elemental king of that spirit. Apostles and their varying power are astral beings who were once human that are much less powerful than their elemental king equivalent, Void and his creation of the Godhand to further the agenda of the IOE

 

[RaffoBaffo]

They look more like GD than elemental Kings.
They've nothing that link them with a natural element.
Also, well, we saw the Kings.

 

[Gil Blas]

The elemental kings would never have been depicted as ugly as those four companions of Void's were.

 

[Aazealh]

Let me start by addressing the thread title right off the bat: Void is absolutely not standing next to the four elemental kings in the flashback Guts sees. As a reminder: we do know what the four kings look like. We see them in volume 25, when Schierke calls upon them to protect Enoch. They aren't related at all – in any way, shape or form – to Void's little crew. Of course, beyond that obvious fact, there's several things that make that connection impossible, like the fact the elemental kings aren't humans or former humans, or that they are not exactly "aligned" with the God Hand. It would also make no sense for Void to be in that position while he serves the God of the Abyss. In short: it's just not possible.

In Buddhism Void is considered an element and I do not believe this to be coincidental.

If Miura had meant to reference Buddhism, he would have used another name for the character. One based on Japanese, Indian or even Chinese, but definitely not English. Furthermore, the elements in Berserk are clearly referencing the Western tradition of Alchemical elements. The proof is not only in their names (Sylphs, Salamanders, Undines, Gnomes), but also in the symbols used to represent them in the series. In fact, Miura has even commented on how he created Schierke's magic in Berserk in interviews.

Lastly, a fifth type of elements was actually introduced late in the series, when the crew got to Elfhelm. But we have a name for it: Barytes (or Baryutes). Here is how it's described: "They're the tiniest [elements], and they connect the four others. The elementals of "weight". [They] are so small that I can’t even see them with my spiritual sight. However, when they gather, they make things heavy, they darken the sky and bring on depression or obsession to the mind." So it's not related to esoteric Buddhism, nor to ninjutsu... I encourage you to re-read the last three volumes to acquaint yourself better with the notion.

Do note that there are Buddhist concepts in Berserk, like causality or karma. But this isn't one of them.

 

[MetalChimera]

Let me start by addressing the thread title right off the bat: Void is absolutely not standing next to the four elemental kings in the flashback Guts sees. As a reminder: we do know what the four kings look like. We see them in volume 25, when Schierke calls upon them to protect Enoch. They aren't related at all – in any way, shape or form – to Void's little crew. Of course, beyond that obvious fact, there's several things that make that connection impossible, like the fact the elemental kings aren't humans or former humans, or that they are not exactly "aligned" with the God Hand. It would also make no sense for Void to be in that position while he serves the God of the Abyss. In short: it's just not possible.



If Miura had meant to reference Buddhism, he would have used another name for the character. One based on Japanese, Indian or even Chinese, but definitely not English. Furthermore, the elements in Berserk are clearly referencing the Western tradition of Alchemical elements. The proof is not only in their names (Sylphs, Salamanders, Undines, Gnomes), but also in the symbols used to represent them in the series. In fact, Miura has even commented on how he created Schierke's magic in Berserk in interviews.

Lastly, a fifth type of elements was actually introduced late in the series, when the crew got to Elfhelm. But we have a name for it: Barytes (or Baryutes). Here is how it's described: "They're the tiniest [elements], and they connect the four others. The elementals of "weight". [They] are so small that I can’t even see them with my spiritual sight. However, when they gather, they make things heavy, they darken the sky and bring on depression or obsession to the mind." So it's not related to esoteric Buddhism, nor to ninjutsu... I encourage you to re-read the last three volumes to acquaint yourself better with the notion.

Do note that there are Buddhist concepts in Berserk, like causality or karma. But this isn't one of them.

I see the arguments in the thread. Eh I still thought the idea of barytes reminded me of the binding aspect of the element void. And the elemental kings weren’t really detailed pictures from what I remember. Man, I like it but eh if my examples don’t work I still like my idea of Void wanting to work into some sort of special magic that must’ve been taboo or crossing boundaries he was cautioned against. Gah I really wanted to be onto something's

I definitely think that fifth type of element has to do with the way their magic works I think you at least had a similar theory since I could be mistaken

The elemental kings would never have been depicted as ugly as those four companions of Void's were.

This made me laugh hahah nice one.

 

[Aazealh]

the elemental kings weren’t really detailed pictures from what I remember.

We see them quite clearly. They are gigantic spiritual entities clearly associated with the element they govern, not creepy humanoid figures. Gil Blas wasn't just joking, the character designs are definitely not compatible.

I still like my idea of Void wanting to work into some sort of special magic that must’ve been taboo or crossing boundaries he was cautioned against.

That's not a novel idea though. Void is basically depicted as an evil wizard in the series, and he presides over ceremonies involving humans sacrifices. It's a given the type of magic he employs would be taboo to magicians like Flora.

I definitely think that fifth type of element has to do with the way their magic works I think you at least had a similar theory since I could be mistaken

Yeah, I theorized it could be related immediately when Barytes were introduced. I still like that idea, but it's not the only possibility for it.

 

[MetalChimera]

Quick question about my theory guys, do you still agree with the idea of a hierarchy of power in the practice of elemental magic and the astral beings related to those elements themselves? Like the elemental king is the highest level of power or spiritual being associated with that element. With the Godhand if this baryte theory or fifth element theory holds any way then I think there is a clear hierarchy with the pseudo apostle apostle Godhand etc and that it follows a similar structure. I think Void plans on implementing the use of this element or this magic in the world on a larger scale and I definitely believe that among the Godhand he is the strongest, though we haven’t seen the sacrifices of three members the scale of Voids sacrifice is so large and if the number of sacrifices has anything to do with the power of the demon, which it does then he has to be the strongest. I think it’s significant for the ceremony the creation of the brand, what we may learn if there were any other ideas written down by Miura that could’ve been scrapped if just anything further happens with this incredible story that I was damn near in tears to find out the author of died. I’m not a psycho please don’t think it’s just because I won’t get to see the end. I get sad when celebs , authors etc die and fume when people make funny memes about their deaths in social media. I won’t get into all of that: I’m just curious does anyone think there’s a significance to the scale of power in the use of elementals and that The Godhand may be targeting spirit trees and other magic users not only because it can challenge them directly but to further cement their power and magic practice into the world?

 

[Aazealh]

Quick question about my theory guys, do you still agree with the idea of a hierarchy of power in the practice of elemental magic and the astral beings related to those elements themselves? Like the elemental king is the highest level of power or spiritual being associated with that element.

Well yeah, the elemental kings rule over their respective element, that's why they're "elemental kings". This isn't a theory, it's how it's explained when they're introduced in the story. Nothing new here.

With the Godhand if this baryte theory or fifth element theory holds any way then I think there is a clear hierarchy with the pseudo apostle apostle Godhand etc and that it follows a similar structure.

That doesn't seem to be a relevant comparison at all. Void leads the God Hand, but they all have their own specialties and are not subordinate to one another. Again, this is stuff you can find out by just reading the manga.

The Godhand may be targeting spirit trees and other magic users not only because it can challenge them directly but to further cement their power and magic practice into the world?

The reason they destroyed most forests of spiritual trees is explained by the Great Gurus. It was to facilitate the advent of Fantasia. There's no mystery here.