Bloodborne

[Griffith]

So, by the time I got everything in order, or so I thought, last night I was pretty tired but decided to take down Gehrman anyway. He had some pretty good moves and combos if you're not careful, but after the DLC he wasn't anything one couldn't manage, and unfortunately for him he was very susceptible to a jumping R2 with Ludwig's as he passed from mid to close range.

Anyway, I was so focused on beating him going in that it wasn't until the PREY SLAUGHTERED message flashed on the screen that I realized I DIDN'T CONSUME THE UMBILICAL CORDS!! I frantically tried to open my inventory and consume them, bumbled a bit, and wondered if it's too late and I'd just waste them then? Too late either way, the Moon Presense descended as I was freaking out at the prospect that I blew it all, I pause wondering if just having them was enough because I don't know if the Presence shows itself either way, and I'm so new to the PS4 I don't even know how to reset the damn thing quickly. I look on transfixed as The Moon Presense takes me in its arms, starts putting me to what most closely resembles a mouth, and... I finally shut it off!

Oh man! So, I blew it!? These games auto save all the time. Gehrman was dead, I consumed no cords and the ending started. I wasn't even sure if the game wouldn't start me directly in NG+ when I restarted it, or if it was even possible to change the outcome at this point if it didn't.

I couldn't just run right to it again in NG+, it's literally the last thing you do, and I wouldn't want to. So, I restart the game, fully expecting to be fucked, and I reawaken in the Hunter's Dream outside the literal iron gate outside the Gehrman fight. Doesn't look like a new game, hopefully not how NG+ starts. There's no fog, so Gehrman's still dead. I go to the Doll and level up with the Echoes I got from him (heh), consume the umbilical cords, and head back in. The cutscene begins again, it's all the same, the Presence grabs me, puts me to it's mouth, and... is repelled! The fight is on! YES! Goddamn that was close and I'm an idiot. Wheeeeew. So, the Moon Presense! His movements weren't too much to handle, and he didn't hit especially hard, but he was sneaky and unorthodox in a couple of ways. Particularly, he had a lot of ways of damaging you without it being obvious you got hit, which is more disorienting than you'd think because you don't recognize the threat (you're being hit!) or your health situation right away. Suddenly, I'm at half life. I have no life! I'm dead! He seemingly got me with a one shot attack in our first fight, but I realized during the second he must have drained all my life and then damaged me again. I was disappointed but got him the next time, though not without some drama as it hit me again with its life drain and also numbing mist type attack that prevented healing for far too long. It made me glad tougher bosses didn't employ such tactics, and made this one fittingly unique. On to NG+!

Oh wait, what the hell with that ending? Am I the squid or helped make it or what? I liked the other endings I looked up after better.

I couldn't quite get into the Kos Parasite weapon myself, but it's not a bad idea to stat up for it; Arcane builds get stupidly overpowered with all those beautiful hunters tools you can now use that were just gathering dust in your inventory before.

Yeah, I put 20 into arcane to try most of the tools, but at they level they really don't do enough to justify the investment, except Beast Roar which can be a life saver or make some of the tougher human encounters simple. Considering the rate I'm leveling in NG+ I should be able to invest more in it but right now my priority is capping strength and then I'll decide between more skill or arcane.

Yup, those are the guys I was talking about. Those two are hands-down the most hated non-boss enemies in the game, with many citing them as being tougher than most bosses. But there's a very good reason why players go through the pain of hunting them down.

Spoiler

They drop a really kickass weapon.

Got 'em, was almost a cakewalk but I let my guard down after killing the ceiling one and getting the other down to like 5% life... Then I HAD to beat them or lose like 60,000+ echoes.

The only thing I would recommend to make sure you do before starting NG+ is get the two Red Jellies from the Lecture Building if you haven't gotten them already. You need 4 of those total to reach the deepest layers of the Chalice dungeons, and frankly, just grabbing the ones from the Lecture Building on two NG cycles is the most painless way to acquire them all.

I made sure to get those too, I already experienced the pain of ritual material shortage just getting to the lower Chalice Dungeons. Beat Rom and now I'm at the Beast that's even below him. The labyrinth is starting to get more interesting!

 

[Cyrus Jong]

BA-HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, man, that was a close one Griffith. Good thing you were able to cheat the system, or else that probably would have soured your opinion of Bloodborne forever. Thanks for th eongoing commentary in any case, it was very entertaining to hear about your progress.

Oh wait, what the hell with that ending? Am I the squid or helped make it or what? I liked the other endings I looked up after better.

Spoiler

Yup, that's you. Consuming the umbilical cords and slaying the Moon Presence turned you into an Infant Great One who will presumably grow up to continue guiding Hunters on future hunts for the beasts, and likely other Great Ones. Or maybe you'll just be a god who does you're own thing. I think, anyway. But until then, you're just a squid. Who's a kid. You're a squid-kid. You're...

Oh my god...Splatoon has been the sequel to Bloodborne all this time!

Yeah, I put 20 into arcane to try most of the tools, but at they level they really don't do enough to justify the investment, except Beast Roar which can be a life saver or make some of the tougher human encounters simple. Considering the rate I'm leveling in NG+ I should be able to invest more in it but right now my priority is capping strength and then I'll decide between more skill or arcane.

Most tools aren't particularly useful until you get to about 40 Arcane. After that, they get real nasty, and they only get nastier from there, continuing to scale in damage all the way up to 99.

Got 'em, was almost a cakewalk but I let my guard down after killing the ceiling one and getting the other down to like 5% life... Then I HAD to beat them or lose like 60,000+ echoes.

They're one of the funner opportunities to try the Shaman Bone Blades on.

 

[Griffith]

BA-HAHAHAHAHAHA! Oh, man, that was a close one Griffith. Good thing you were able to cheat the system, or else that probably would have soured your opinion of Bloodborne forever. Thanks for th eongoing commentary in any case, it was very entertaining to hear about your progress.

My pleasure, but yeah, loved it even though I had so many close calls where I would have completely screwed myself and resented the game! This is precisely what happened with Demon's Souls when I could no longer level at the end (I didn't even mean to accept any end game scenario, I was just clicking through the last of the demon boss I beat for item pickup and thought I activated the arc stone... ugh).

Most tools aren't particularly useful until you get to about 40 Arcane. After that, they get real nasty, and they only get nastier from there, continuing to scale in damage all the way up to 99.

I'm finding out, I completed the Great Pthumeru Ihyll Chalice and got the Yharnam Stone, and man with Moon runes and heir I'm leveling like a motherfucker. I have 50 strength and skill respectively and now I'm just leveling arcane which I think I've already got to 36. Still, I'm finding the Chalice's, especially the layer 5, cursed and defiled ones, to still be quite challenging and rewarding, at least moreso than NG+, which is way too weak for my level after the labyrinth. I was happy how quickly I could get the Red Jelly I needed though, basically going right after Amelia.

 

[VladimirPutin]

Griffith, after you achieve platinum trophy and clear the hardest dungeons on your main character, I would recommend you to play with "Waste of Skin" character without leveling up. So basically Blood Level 4 challenge. I'm doing one myself now and I've beat ( in order of beating them ) bosses such as: Cleric Beast, Father Gascoigne, Blood Starved Beast, Vicar Amelia, Shadows of Yharnam, Rom the Vacuous Spider, One Reborn, Micolash, Witch of Hemwick, Mergo's Wet Nurse, Celestial Emissary, Amygdala, Darkbeast Paarl. So basically 13 bosses. Now I'm struggling with Ebrietas and after her I'll be going for Logarius. Then probably proceed to DLC which is the hardest.

BL4 challenge really teaches you about gameplay mechanics and how to manage to beat bosses on such a low level with use of different items and combat tricks.

 

[Griffith]

I know a lot of people are probably disappointed that it's not Bloodborne 2, but frankly, I'm relieved. I loved Bloodborne, but it has the same issue Dark Souls 1 had; it pretty much revealed all there was to the setting. Sure, there are still tons of unanswered questions, but what worked so well about it was the gradual (or, depending on how you played, outright sudden) reveal of

Spoiler

the Lovecraftian elements behind everything

. You can't rehash that plot again, and going all-in with them in future sequels just runs the risk of diluting them and make them not feel as impactful as they're supposed to be.

Sorry to bring this back up so late, but I've been thinking about this since playing through the game and I pretty much agree, except part of me wishes they WOULD go all in on the weirder,

Spoiler

Lovecraftian

elements in a sequel and do it justice, like basically make it as off the wall, weird and surreal as possible from the get go and all the way through. Unfortunately, based on From/Miayazaki's history with sequels, I don't think it's likely they would, so you're right.

Griffith, after you achieve platinum trophy and clear the hardest dungeons on your main character, I would recommend you to play with "Waste of Skin" character without leveling up. So basically Blood Level 4 challenge. I'm doing one myself now and I've beat ( in order of beating them ) bosses such as: Cleric Beast, Father Gascoigne, Blood Starved Beast, Vicar Amelia, Shadows of Yharnam, Rom the Vacuous Spider, One Reborn, Micolash, Witch of Hemwick, Mergo's Wet Nurse, Celestial Emissary, Amygdala, Darkbeast Paarl. So basically 13 bosses. Now I'm struggling with Ebrietas and after her I'll be going for Logarius. Then probably proceed to DLC which is the hardest.

BL4 challenge really teaches you about gameplay mechanics and how to manage to beat bosses on such a low level with use of different items and combat tricks.

Damn, this sent me on a BL4 youtube dive that kept me up later than I'd planned, including one of a guy doing all the base game bosses without dying, one that beat the game without even visiting the fucking Hunter's Dream(!!), and one video of a dude doing a BL4 NG+6 Kos fight! I didn't see one with every DLC boss included, but I'm sure it's out there.

Man, that's crazy, you basically have to master the game to the point you don't get hit (though I saw even some late boss strikes were survivable). I don't know, it's tempting. I sort of want to start a new character because after a lot of Chalice Dungeons my guy is in the 200s and kind of boring (NG+ is way easier than NG at this point), but then I'd just do the same build over going Vit, End, Skl with Cane, Spear, and Ludwig's (I can't think of a better one unless you're doing a completely different playstyle). Watching those vids actually reinforced a theory I had that for the high NG pluses that you'd eventually want to run a glass cannon using beast pellets because your defenses will become pretty flat by then even if you keep putting points in Vit after 50, so your best bet after that is a better offense if you're going to get one-shotted anyway (in the vids they also cheesed out on the 2nd part of the Micolash fight like I did in NG+; glad to see even these guys don't want to deal with his uninterruptible A Call Beyond spamming =).

Interesting that SL1/BL4 runs are also basically what Sekiro is doing by eliminating the RPG elements; it's completely game mechanics and human skill across the board at that point, no grinding to win, so you just gotta git gud (NG+ in that game could be crazy). An interesting proposition if I get bored once I get that platinum trophy (just need the other two endings methinks).

By the way, this reminded me that before I completely forget I wanted to catalog my boss fights, specifically the number of tries. I may not remember them all exactly (in which case some of my past posts might be more accurate) but these should all at least be in the ballpark:

Regular bosses:

Cleric Beast 2
Father Gasciogne 4
BloodStarved Beast 1
Vicar Amelia 5
Darkbeast Paarl - 2
Shadow of Yharnam - 1
Rom - 2
The One Reborn - 2
Micolash - 5
Mergo's Wet Nurse - 1
Witch of Hemwick - 1
Martyr Logarius - 9
Amygdala - 1
Celestial Emissary - 1
Ebrietas - 5
Ludwig - 12
Living Failures - 2
Maria - 7
Laurence - 1
Orphan of Kos - 4
Gerhman - 1
Moon Presence - 2

Chalice Bosses:

Undead Giant - 1
Merciless Watcher - 1
Watchdog of the Old Lords - 1
Beast-possessed Soul - 1
Keeper of the Old Lords - 2 (ugh, was fucking around with weapons/not healing up)
Pthumerian Descendant - 1
Bloodletting Beast - 2
Cursed Keeper of the Old Lords - 4 (Holy Sword FTW!)
Cursed Watch Dog of the Old Lords - 7 (en fuego with only half life =)
Cursed Amygdala - 6 (maybe fighting his base form more would have helped; was embarrassingly easy one figured out)
Depth 5 Pthumerian Descendant - 8 (fuck this wall clipping cheater, but 1 handed Holy Sword proved itself)
Headless Bloodletting Beast -1 (probably dumb luck)
Abhorrent Beast - 3 (dude sticks to you worse than Kid Kos)
Queen Yharnam - 1
Maneater Boar - 1
Brainsucker - 1
Forgotten Madman - 1
Pthumerian Elder - 1
Loran Silverbeast - 1
Depth 5 Abhorrent Beast - 5 (Whirligig FTW, and the fun!)
Loran Darkbeast - 4 (now that I'm counting I regret not taking this one more seriously; it's basically Paarl but his electricity blast will 1 shot you at the end if you're fucking around and being lazy/stupid/me and not healing up to max or even wearing lightning gear. I was also Whjirligigging when I already knew Ludwig's wrecks him; I don't know why this one's so stuck in my craw other than this boss was lame and shouldn't have killed me so much near the end =)

I don't want to think about how many tries each of these bosses would take at BL4.

 

[VladimirPutin]

That's pretty impressive On my first playthrough I was struggling more than you. In general I had x3 or x4 ( or even x10 ) of your number of attempts. Now, on BL4, after 9 playthroughs ( till NG+8 ), I've beat some bosses on my first try! Like Rom, Amygdala, Micolash, Darkbeast Paarl, Blood Starved Beast, Vicar Amelia, Witch of Hemwick, Cleric Beast or Father Gascoigne. With others I had tougher battles. Especially with Shadows of Yharnam and Ebrietas ( 7 attempts ). Now that I've beat Ebrietas I'm fighting with Logarius and I consider him easier than Ebrietas, but still tough. Gehrman is a whole different level, I think it will take more than 30 attempts.

I don't want to talk about DLC for now

 

[Johnstantine]

My boss deaths were way, WAY worse. It was the first soulsesque game I played, so I had no idea what I was doing

 

[Griffith]

That's pretty impressive On my first playthrough I was struggling more than you. In general I had x3 or x4 ( or even x10 ) of your number of attempts.

My boss deaths were way, WAY worse. It was the first soulsesque game I played, so I had no idea what I was doing

Yeah, this not being my first rodeo is definitely a major factor in my favor (I can't even imagine starting with it, Johnstantine; I could barely persevere through DS1/2 at first =). My Souls series hours leading into Bloodborne:

DeS - 38
DS1 - 198
DS2 - 289
DS3 - 233
Nioh - 101

Once I finish with Bloodborne (115+) I'll probably break 1,000 hours, I think only Diablo has claimed more of my life, so I arguably should have done better. On the other hand I wasn't exactly fighting Taurus Demons and Gargoyles this time. It's crazy how scary and seemingly impossible those early fights seemed in retrospect. I finished my DS1 Remastered run out of obligation the other day and Gwyn kinda straight up sucked! Like, he was slow and predictable and didn't have any variety of moves as you took him down (this guy practically used to give me nightmares and I had to cheese him from behind pillars to survive =). The only reason he could hit me was because, other than rolling, everything you do takes FOREVER in that game, leaving you stupidly open to attacks (I was using a Black Knight Greatsword though). Even drinking Estus' takes so long and leaves you so vulnerable you're better off abandoning it altogether and just surviving without it, but other than that he's not fast or aggressive at all compared to what was to come.

That's one thing BB and DS3 definitely have over their predecessors, their tough boss fights are objectively the hardest and you more or less have to learn the fights. If I fought the Nameless King right now I wonder if he would seem as hard as I remember or if it would disappoint me like Gwyn. Funny enough, Demon's Souls still has among the series' hardest environments in my mind. The latter areas of the Boletarian Palace, the first fucking world, have yet to be surpassed in my eyes.

Now, on BL4, after 9 playthroughs ( till NG+8 ), I've beat some bosses on my first try! Like Rom, Amygdala, Micolash, Darkbeast Paarl, Blood Starved Beast, Vicar Amelia, Witch of Hemwick, Cleric Beast or Father Gascoigne. With others I had tougher battles. Especially with Shadows of Yharnam and Ebrietas ( 7 attempts ). Now that I've beat Ebrietas I'm fighting with Logarius and I consider him easier than Ebrietas, but still tough. Gehrman is a whole different level, I think it will take more than 30 attempts.

I don't want to talk about DLC for now

That's really impressive, but I guess on your 10th run through everyone feels more manageable and within control, which you'd have to have in order to accomplish a BL4 run I imagine. I definitely felt that way on NG+, but it's interesting you brought up the Shadows because they're the only boss I found way harder. Fucking giant snake summons and the order you kill them and shit suddenly mattered like it didn't the first time! I can definitely see Gehrman being a big problem under these conditions because even though I got past him I never mastered the fight; he hit me plenty and I had to heal a lot, which he thankfully allows. Those sort of encounters won't be in the player's favor though once those hits or combos kill you outright. Ugh, I don't even want to play the DLC bosses again on NG+, let alone BL4.

 

[VladimirPutin]

I'm struggling ( for real ) now with Logarius and Gehrman. I was about to finish Logarius 10 times and I died every time :( I was really scared about safety of my PS4 controller. Something similar is happening right now with Gehrman. I can already tell that Logarius and Gehrman are doable for me but I will need more perfection in my attempts. Especially at the very end of boss fights, because I'm getting too greedy when their HP is getting low.

 

[Death May Die]

James Gun director of guardians of the Galaxy teased a image on twitter from maybe Bloodborne. Maybe it has something to do with a Bloodborne movie or even Bloodborne 2. Sony also had a panel that day. I don't want to buy into all of this but being a huge fan it's hard not to.

https://screenrant.com/bloodborne-movie-james-gunn/amp/

 

[Cyrus Jong]

Sorry to bring this back up so late, but I've been thinking about this since playing through the game and I pretty much agree, except part of me wishes they WOULD go all in on the weirder,

Spoiler

Lovecraftian

elements in a sequel and do it justice, like basically make it as off the wall, weird and surreal as possible from the get go and all the way through. Unfortunately, based on From/Miayazaki's history with sequels, I don't think it's likely they would, so you're right.

If they wanted to go all crazy with the Lovecraftian goodness, FROM would probably do much better making a new IP entirely. Though, I suppose they could do a decent sequel if it was more like something that took place in the same universe as Bloodborne, rather than a direct continuation of its themes, like what Dark Souls' sequels tried to do to disappointing effect IMO. A kind of "stealth sequel" as the case would be. In the days leading up to its release, there was some speculation that Bloodborne might in fact have taken place in the Demon's Souls world, thanks to a line Father Gascoigne uttered in an alpha build, but which was ultimately cut.

I think the implications would have been pretty neat if that were indeed canon.

I'm struggling ( for real ) now with Logarius and Gehrman. I was about to finish Logarius 10 times and I died every time :( I was really scared about safety of my PS4 controller. Something similar is happening right now with Gehrman. I can already tell that Logarius and Gehrman are doable for me but I will need more perfection in my attempts. Especially at the very end of boss fights, because I'm getting too greedy when their HP is getting low.

A good, if cheesy, tactic, to use on bosses once they're low on health is to go all-out with your guns (Cannon if you've got the strength to hold it, Repeating Pistol if you don't). Bone Marrow Ash makes your shots very powerful, even if you're Bloodtinge is low. Though if you failed to disrupt Logy's ritual, that likely won't help.

James Gun director of guardians of the Galaxy teased a image on twitter from maybe Bloodborne. Maybe it has something to do with a Bloodborne movie or even Bloodborne 2. Sony also had a panel that day. I don't want to buy into all of this but being a huge fan it's hard not to.

https://screenrant.com/bloodborne-movie-james-gunn/amp/

I wouldn't buy it myself. The Caryll Runes in Bloodborne draw a lot of inspiration from the Germanic runes of yore, which in turn are very common in horror stories. People are speculating that a Berserk film may be in the works for the exact same reason, and I'm even more skeptical of that.

 

[Walter]

James Gun director of guardians of the Galaxy teased a image on twitter from maybe Bloodborne. Maybe it has something to do with a Bloodborne movie or even Bloodborne 2. Sony also had a panel that day. I don't want to buy into all of this but being a huge fan it's hard not to.

https://screenrant.com/bloodborne-movie-james-gunn/amp/

Nope. It's likely an adaptation of a Grant Morrison comic, Nameless: https://www.instagram.com/p/_m4w3sHuX2/?utm_source=ig_embed

 

[Griffith]

I'm struggling ( for real ) now with Logarius and Gehrman. I was about to finish Logarius 10 times and I died every time :( I was really scared about safety of my PS4 controller. Something similar is happening right now with Gehrman. I can already tell that Logarius and Gehrman are doable for me but I will need more perfection in my attempts. Especially at the very end of boss fights, because I'm getting too greedy when their HP is getting low.

Weird you're trying them both concurrently (especially Gehrman but I'm assuming you'll Mark out of there if you beat him first). I could see that driving me nuts, I'd be scared I'd dodge a Gehrman attack like he's Logarius and vice versa, but is it a nice change of pace? I love those wins where you stop playing them for awhile after multiple consecutive frustrating deaths, even a few hours, then come back and waste them on the next try like a master. That's how it went with Maria, and Sister Friede too (by the time I could beat her final form she couldn't touch me anymore and I punished her at every opportunity).

I'm at Cainhurst myself in my attempt to wrap up NG+ and get the morning ending trophy after I grab all the chunks here and in the DLC. I've got nervous excitement about Logarius, even though he didn't kill me as much as Ludwig and others have been equally hard since, but, he was the first to make me truly uncomfortable and give me a lot of trouble (smash cut to a flashback of me running to his fucking boss room again and again and again). I'm excited at the chance to get a little revenge (I smacked Paarl around for the Loran Darkbeast and went directly to waste the Bloodstarved Beast for good measure), but I'm nervous he'll kick my butt again, especially if I don't break his ritual as Cyrus said. I'll really be disappointed if I'm just over-leveled and win despite playing poorly or something.

James Gun director of guardians of the Galaxy teased a image on twitter from maybe Bloodborne. Maybe it has something to do with a Bloodborne movie or even Bloodborne 2. Sony also had a panel that day. I don't want to buy into all of this but being a huge fan it's hard not to.

https://screenrant.com/bloodborne-movie-james-gunn/amp/

I wouldn't buy it myself. The Caryll Runes in Bloodborne draw a lot of inspiration from the Germanic runes of yore, which in turn are very common in horror stories. People are speculating that a Berserk film may be in the works for the exact same reason, and I'm even more skeptical of that.

Nope. It's likely an adaptation of a Grant Morrison comic, Nameless: https://www.instagram.com/p/_m4w3sHuX2/?utm_source=ig_embed

When I saw Wally posted in here I was excited at the prospect that he was so intrigued by all the activity in here he lost his mind, bought a PS4 and Bloodborne, and was now playing it too! Alas...

But yeah, this is obviously far-fetched and in no way necessarily related AT ALL. I didn't realize being a Bloodborne fan came with so much BS rumors. I mean, I've only been playing a few weeks and it's been constant nonsense about BB2 (which spurned me to buy honestly, so sign me up to the sucker's newsletter ) and now a James Gunn movie(!?) even though we know he's working on some pretty big other things and From specifically DIDN'T announce BB2. C'mon Internet, give us a break. The intersection on the Venn diagram of Berserk and Miayazaki fans that are hopeful/gullible must almost be a perfect circle with all the obvious crap rumors and "connections" we traffic in.

If they wanted to go all crazy with the Lovecraftian goodness, FROM would probably do much better making a new IP entirely. Though, I suppose they could do a decent sequel if it was more like something that took place in the same universe as Bloodborne, rather than a direct continuation of its themes, like what Dark Souls' sequels tried to do to disappointing effect IMO. A kind of "stealth sequel" as the case would be. In the days leading up to its release, there was some speculation that Bloodborne might in fact have taken place in the Demon's Souls world, thanks to a line Father Gascoigne uttered in an alpha build, but which was ultimately cut.

https://media.giphy.com/media/MWpoMcLBA0F44/giphy.gif

I think the implications would have been pretty neat if that were indeed canon.

I mean, beyond just being similar FROM games I feel like all the Souls games from Demon's to Bloodborne are pretty much as canon to each other as any of the Dark Souls games are, whether they're overtly acknowledging the direct connection(s) or not (like you say, even the connections and shared characters between Dark Souls 1-3 are held together by completely vague and nonsensical gobbledygook, "the Blood of the Dark Soul," my ass =). So yeah, I know that dialogue was cut for one reason or another, but it makes little difference to me as all these games seem to go directly back to Demon's Souls anyway. The Old One is definitely a Great One, if not THE Great Old One. I wonder how Sekiro will connect, lore-wise. It'll turn out it IS Bloodborne II when lesser Amygdalas start appearing all over feudal Japan. Let's make this rote speculation an "official" BB2 rumor! =)

A good, if cheesy, tactic, to use on bosses once they're low on health is to go all-out with your guns (Cannon if you've got the strength to hold it, Repeating Pistol if you don't). Bone Marrow Ash makes your shots very powerful, even if you're Bloodtinge is low. Though if you failed to disrupt Logy's ritual, that likely won't help.

Yeah, it's lovely how you basically can't stagger or visceral attack him when he does that! I think I beat him the 2nd time I figured out how to stop that, and was pretty sad I didn't get him the first ("Will I ever win now? " =). I've never really taken advantage of kiting with the gun because I just haven't used them for their own damage potential at all, but that's basically how I finished off the Orphan of Kos using Molotovs. Why lose at the last second when they unexpectedly zig instead of zag, which they often seem to do, on that outcome-determining exchange? I've got Bloodtinge up to 18 now so I could use all weapons and guns, so maybe I'll experiment with some different strategies like that and see how I like them (I've found a lot of cheesy advantages are more trouble than they're worth if they don't suit your style and you just end up fumbling around trying to pull it off).


I don't know where the reply went to my comment, about the difficulty of the Boletrian Palace, that mentioned the giant flying Storm Beasts that spear you and how they and the Amygdalas make you feel so small and insignificant in an uncaring world, but I liked it and wanted to add that the Boletrian Palace dragons were like that for me as well, and fittingly enough the Amygdalas are basically filling that "dragon on a castle wall" role relative to Bloodborne, particularly the one's that will actually grab, laser or interact with you. It's too bad you couldn't otherwise hit or fight them like the dragons (maybe if you had enough Insight =).

 

[VladimirPutin]

Even something beyond weird, it was wrong. I focused today on Logarius only and was even closer to kill him, but died. I think I'm gonna get him tomorrow. It was very wrong trying to take down both of them in short period of time.

EDIT: OK, I got him. Still I needed 15 attempts, seriously. I don't like Logarius at all after this fight For me, beast blood pellet was useless in this fight, maybe other players could utilize it better, but not me, I struggled and I had weaker blood gems than most of the BL4 players out there.

 

[Griffith]

Even something beyond weird, it was wrong. I focused today on Logarius only and was even closer to kill him, but died. I think I'm gonna get him tomorrow. It was very wrong trying to take down both of them in short period of time.

EDIT: OK, I got him. Still I needed 15 attempts, seriously. I don't like Logarius at all after this fight For me, beast blood pellet was useless in this fight, maybe other players could utilize it better, but not me, I struggled and I had weaker blood gems than most of the BL4 players out there.

I'm glad you got him man, the whole ordeal sounds like my original NG run at him at whatever level I was at (plenty high because I didn't find him until I was at Gehrman myself), and he just kept kicking my ass until I figured out I could break his buff (I almost killed him by luck on like the second try using big slow ass tricked out Ludwig's, like I was a hit or two away, but got greedy, made the wrong moves, fucked it up, and the rest was history). Anyway, I got my revenge on him yesterday too doing my overpowered NG+ run and just kicked the shit out of him. I didn't need to rely on power though I'm happy to say, my timing was so much better now I think I visceral'd him like 3 or 4 times if that's even possible. I actually thought the second part of the fight was easier because I didn't have to go around his dumb slow moving AOE spell anymore and he'd come to me.

I was so confident after I immediately tried taking on Ludwig with the Whirligig and barely did any damage before getting stomped (my timing/spacing with it was just off, I need to stop trying to make it my thing =). 2nd try I'm back with Ludwig's Blade but get off to a bad start, getting caught flat footed picking up my Echoes. I don't know if it does that usually, like how you have to dismiss an item pickup message, or I accidentally did a gesture, but my guy just stopped moving and I was hit by his jump attack! I recovered and danced with him a while, almost got him to his second phase, which I was confident about, but then he stopped moving directly in front of and a little away me, so I couldn't really see him, which, fine, whatever, time to hea... but then I see the telltale green disCHARGE!! I roll but too late, and he killed me with that fucking charge attack. Third time was the charm though, got him to phase two and a few slashes and a couple of visceral's later it was over. I actually managed to stun him, do a charge attack, and follow it with visceral, which I don't think I'd done before (usually I just fuck up the visceral after stunning them and have to settle for regular attacks =).

 

[Cyrus Jong]

I don't know where the reply went to my comment, about the difficulty of the Boletrian Palace, that mentioned the giant flying Storm Beasts that spear you and how they and the Amygdalas make you feel so small and insignificant in an uncaring world, but I liked it and wanted to add that the Boletrian Palace dragons were like that for me as well, and fittingly enough the Amygdalas are basically filling that "dragon on a castle wall" role relative to Bloodborne, particularly the one's that will actually grab, laser or interact with you. It's too bad you couldn't otherwise hit or fight them like the dragons (maybe if you had enough Insight =).

I deleted it because I suddenly realized Dark Souls II had something similar with the Dragon Aerie, so the Storm Beasts in Demon's Souls weren't quite the one-off thing I originally thought they were. That and because I didn't think you managed to read my post before then, but you're more sneaky than I thought . Sorry. I won't do that again, I'll just edit in my correction in future posts.

Would have been cool if you could shoot the Amygdalas in any case. Even if you couldn't kill them, it'd be neat if it made them switch from being passive observers (usually) to swatting you like the annoying bug you're being. Kinda like the wyverns in Dragon Aerie when you mess with their eggs.

 

[Griffith]

I deleted it because I suddenly realized Dark Souls II had something similar with the Dragon Aerie, so the Storm Beasts in Demon's Souls weren't quite the one-off thing I originally thought they were. That and because I didn't think you managed to read my post before then, but you're more sneaky than I thought . Sorry. I won't do that again, I'll just edit in my correction in future posts.

I see everything!

But you don't have to correct the record or anything, it was a cool point is all, and I don't think Dragon Aerie had the same vibe because for as impressive and foreboding as it may have looked initially you really have to go seeking the trouble there. Otherwise, it's almost like the scenic route if you just want to get through, especially compared to the Shrine of Storms where trouble finds YOU as you so elegantly pointed out.

Would have been cool if you could shoot the Amygdalas in any case. Even if you couldn't kill them, it'd be neat if it made them switch from being passive observers (usually) to swatting you like the annoying bug you're being. Kinda like the wyverns in Dragon Aerie when you mess with their eggs.

Yeah, I wonder why they made some of them purely decorative, particularly the one's you can actually shoot or even hit with your trick weapon to no effect (talk about an uncaring world =)! There's the one's that grab you, the one that shoots it's beam (which is discouraging as hell when you encounter it with all those re-spawning assholes), and the boss, but I assumed that at some point you'd fight them all, or could fight them, like a regular mob enemy. I mean, they already had the boss design and move set done, just have them jump off, disappear, and land on you when you if you hit/engage them. Maybe in Bloodborne: Remastered on PS5.


Anyway, I rushed through the rest of the DLC on NG+ last night, and in a Shadow of Yharnam-like twist had the most trouble with Laurence this time, who I was opting to fight instead of Maria just to get an "easy" win! After that humbling experience she wasn't so bad at all, I almost exclusively parried and visceraled her, utilizing the pistol for the first time; I liked the extra split second of reaction time, but so much her dodging and not staggering when I shot too soon. My wife even came over to cheerlead for me near the end, "geez, she always kicks your ass," a distraction I did not appreciate hearing during the decisive point in the fight, but which made it all the more satisfying when I killed her just a few moments later (Maria, not my wife ).

Kid Kos was Kid Kos, I was sloppy to start and ran out of vials while he still had like a third of his life left so at that point I really had to be aggressive and dig in to win (I wasn't actually thinking I could either, I just had no other choice and nothing to lose). Last couple minutes were like a wrestling match we were so on top of each other and I just had to hope he didn't catch me in the wrong place at the wrong time between dodge spams. Very exciting, and I got very lucky a few times (and/or, like most Souls bosses, they're not as likely to connect with those big swings when you take the fight to them). Great way to end the night except the part where I stayed up way too late after fucking around experimenting with different weapons and guns because I was still juiced from the end of the fight (I like that feeling though =). I'm kinda bored with Arcane now at 79, like I don't really use it and how much better can it get, versus boosting and messing with bloodtinge on an upgraded Evelyn, the repeater or other blood weapons. Ultimately, I'm just a simple hack n' slash kinda guy though.

 

[VladimirPutin]

Holy ... After many hours of fighting I've beat Ludwig. This was really exhausting, I think I fought him more than 40 times. Now it's gonna be easier for me and I have "only" 4 bosses to beat in DLC and 2 in base game.

 

[Cyrus Jong]

I'm kinda bored with Arcane now at 79, like I don't really use it and how much better can it get, versus boosting and messing with bloodtinge on an upgraded Evelyn, the repeater or other blood weapons. Ultimately, I'm just a simple hack n' slash kinda guy though.

Arcane tools continue scaling. In fact, a good chunk of them (like Blacksky Eye, Auger of Ebrietas, Executioner's Gloves, and Accursed Brew) scale better from 80-99 than they did from 50-79, so they'll see a much sharper increase in damage from here on out. However, if you don't like slinging spells around now, I doubt you'll change your mind when you get up to 99 Arcane. Bloodtinge will be a lot more fun for a hack n' slash guy like you. Means you can now use guns to complement your hacking and slacking damage, you can use the very powerful Bloodletter and Chikage for some high-risk-high-reward melee, or Simon's Blowblade if you want to add archery to the mix. Though like all stats, they hit their biggest soft caps at 50 and scale poorly from there.

Holy ... After many hours of fighting I've beat Ludwig. This was really exhausting, I think I fought him more than 40 times. Now it's gonna be easier for me and I have "only" 4 bosses to beat in DLC and 2 in base game.

Congratulations! He's one of the toughest bastards in the game, so you scored a major victory. The two bosses left in the base game are nothing in comparison to him, so you should be able to smack them around once you get around to it. As for the rest of the DLC, well...

 

[VladimirPutin]

Thanks : D This is BL4 so generally speaking every boss can kill me very fast, but Ludwig is the hardest one for me even on normal BL character, so I had really hard time fighting him, especially yesterday when I couldn't even get to his second phase most of the time. I gave up with Gehrman till I finish the DLC. Now I'm fighting with Living Failures and they're somewhat problematic, but with use of Beast Blood Pellets I expect to defeat them very soon.

 

[Griffith]

Arcane tools continue scaling. In fact, a good chunk of them (like Blacksky Eye, Auger of Ebrietas, Executioner's Gloves, and Accursed Brew) scale better from 80-99 than they did from 50-79, so they'll see a much sharper increase in damage from here on out. However, if you don't like slinging spells around now, I doubt you'll change your mind when you get up to 99 Arcane.

Well, I knew it kept leveling usefully until 99 but didn't realize Arcane actually got stronger at the latter levels, but I kept at it and am almost to 90 Arcane. The only spells I really use are Beast Roar for especially troublesome Hunters, Phantasm Shell for the cheap DPS buff (less than I used to), and most of all Blacksky Eye because it's a useful projectle for baiting and crowd control that does a not insignificant amount if damage. As a matter of fact it does almost half the damage as my Ludwig's Blade at this point so I see what you mean on the crazy scaling. Every once in a while I check the others you mentioned to see how much damage they do but I always come back to the Eye for the quick, easy use and low bullet cost (it's probably powerful enough to take down bosses on its own, but I've only used it like that on Micolash =).

Bloodtinge will be a lot more fun for a hack n' slash guy like you. Means you can now use guns to complement your hacking and slacking damage, you can use the very powerful Bloodletter and Chikage for some high-risk-high-reward melee, or Simon's Blowblade if you want to add archery to the mix. Though like all stats, they hit their biggest soft caps at 50 and scale poorly from there.

All but Arcane, apparently, where 50 and up is just the beginning! Yeah, I'm using Evelyn over the Repeater or Canons for the same reason I prefer the Eye, good damage at a low cost. The only drawback over the shotguns is the lack of consistent stagger, and it also seems like your window to parry is a little bigger because sometimes I'll blast them, seemingly, mid-swing and the bullet just bounces of them (or maybe it's missing, another thing you rarely have to worry about with the shotguns). I'd like to try comparing all these weapons maxed out but that's the biggest bottleneck in the whole game. Not enough chunks and rocks to go around, especially chunks given how overpriced they are (I use my Insight almost exclusively on Blood Rocks). I tried using an Insight to summon Old Hunter Henriett to change up the NG++ fight with Amelia (spike her HP, make her less "controllable" and predictable) but Henriett couldn't even survive past the Frenzy inducing Church Doctors so I just ground up Amelia with the Whirligig by myself (the only fight that went easier relative to the objective difficulty of the boss was Ebrietas on NG+ when I immediately got stuck in her ass where she couldn't hit me until I charge attacked her to death on my way out; it was like Guts' introduction in the Berserk's Armor =). Anyway, that was a waste of Insight.

Now I'm fighting with Living Failures and they're somewhat problematic, but with use of Beast Blood Pellets I expect to defeat them very soon.

If you got past Ludwig you'll get them quick enough. They're one of few bosses I feel comfortable enough with that I can fight them without getting hit. Can't say that for the Yharnam Shadows or even most solo bosses. Like, it won't be much, but at BL4 once is enough I assume. I actually started a BL4 character and have been tooling around Yharnam, but haven't tried a boss yet. I'll give it a more serious go after getting the Platinum trophy, which shouldn't take long because I'm thinking I won't bother with all the optional bosses in NG++ unless it's to get chunks. I'm just not seeing an appreciable difference from NG+ to make it worthwhile, and I could always fight them again on NG4 if I want, but BL4 seems the more worthwhile challenge.

 

[VladimirPutin]

Actually I died more times at Failures now than Logarius. If they can hit me, most likely they will kill me and I've never been good at bosses like this ;_;

 

[Griffith]

Actually I died more times at Failures now than Logarius. If they can hit me, most likely they will kill me and I've never been good at bosses like this ;_;

Damn... and yeah, I can't really compare experiences because I was fighting them with a fully upgraded Ludwig's Blade and Moonlight Sword so you could probably tangle with them for twice as long without getting hit as it takes me to down them with those and still lose. I'm assuming you're using the Saw Cleaver or Spear? Is it even worthwhile to upgrade the Axe without scaling or is the damage increase negligible and just slower? In any case, don't give up, skeleton!

I decided to make it night so I could get to the forest, but I'm going to be careful to do everything I haven't yet before initiating he blood moon because there's a couple of night-only events and encounters I've skipped over. This game has a lot going on.

Speaking of which, in NG+ I led Alfred to Annalise to he could kill her, I then killed him, tried taking her flesh to the Alter of Despair to revive her without fighting Ebrietas, but it wouldn't let me, and then when I did revive her was disappointed to see she's just back at her throne like nothing happened. After all that and she still didn't accept my wedding proposal. =)

 

[VladimirPutin]

Yep. It's Saw Cleaver upgraded to +10 with +19% and +18 physical attack gems ( I might check again on that ). Today Winter Lantern in Mensis Nightmare dropped +19% physical gem for me and quality of my battle with Failures improved a lot, so I think I'm gonna get them tomorrow. I was doing pretty lame, because I had weaker gems, but with some advice from fellow hunters I've changed them. I don't know if it's worth to upgrade Axe at BL4, but most probably yes, because every point of damage may be crucial to win the fight.

 

[Griffith]

Yep. It's Saw Cleaver upgraded to +10 with +19% and +18 physical attack gems ( I might check again on that ). Today Winter Lantern in Mensis Nightmare dropped +19% physical gem for me and quality of my battle with Failures improved a lot, so I think I'm gonna get them tomorrow. I was doing pretty lame, because I had weaker gems, but with some advice from fellow hunters I've changed them.

I hardly paid attention to gems in my initial playthrough, I just went with the highest damage (to the point I missed some cursed stats messing me up =), but obviously it becomes a major source of your DPS on a run like this. I saw a crazy video last night of someone beating Ludwig at BL4 on NG+6 without dodging! There's always a higher mountain.

Actually, those vids are all pretty long and repetitive because a lot of the time they end up wash, rinse, repeating the safest attack since there's no room for error, especially in the 2nd or 3rd phases of fights when those truly safe windows get smaller and smaller.

I don't know if it's worth to upgrade Axe at BL4, but most probably yes, because every point of damage may be crucial to win the fight.

Yeah, as always, 1 point of ATK or VIT can be the difference between an exhilarating victory with a sliver of life left or another frustratingly close death. That's why I never fuck around with fashion souls or cool but inefficient weapons. At the end of the day you want to put your best foot forward in these games. Speaking which, I found the best armor combo to be Harrowed Hood, Executioner Garb, Constable Gloves, and Black Church Trousers; 236+ on every defensive stat. Obviously that'd be different if I was taking Frenzy and Beasthood into consideration.

Speaking of which, I'm considering upgrading the Beast Claws for a Beast Build because it seems the most interesting route to take with the chunks I have left. My other fully upgraded weapons: Cane, Ludwig's Blade, Moonlight Sword, Whirligig, Blades of Mercy, and Kos Parasite (didn't really catch on with me, which gives me pause on the beast gimmick). Anything else I should consider? I've heard good things and enjoyed playing around with the Burial Blades, Church Pick, Chikage/Rakuyo, basically all blood weapons, etc. Of course, there's also guns to consider, which is why I'm still holding onto my rocks, so to speak. Of course, I'll be able to grab a bunch more soon in NG+3.