Tiddlywinks said:
Now, did you read what I was replying to?
I sure did, and what you said doesn't relate to the discussion. I don't think you quite understood what Griffith was telling you or the kind of people you're talking to in general. I think his reply should have given you a clue. But I get it, you're just a fan of innovation at large, all you want is a better gaming experience, you like all kinds of games and aren't condescending toward what you think others like, etc.
Tiddlywinks said:
Don't play dumb. You and I both know very well why you referenced the hardware in both these quotes.
I think if someone's playing dumb it's you here buddy. If you can't read or can't understand what's written that's too bad but it's still not what's being said. When I'm saying some people need a SDK and a card to make an engine instead of creating their own, I'm talking about developers, not card manufacturers. Seems pretty simple to get. Maybe you're not quite as sharp as I thought.
Tiddlywinks said:
You readily admit that you're not overly interested in the subject and therefore not well informed (which is apparent by me continually having to correct you), yet you persist in arguing with me. The hardware being supported is not a mere side effect of them choosing to use the SDK. Tim Sweeney has made his opinion on the matter well known. They've been working closely with Ageia since their inception, it's integral and doesn't simply run alongside their regular physics engine like Karma did.
I definitely am not interested at all, yet I'm not all that uninformed (well, not completely?
), just like you're not all that informed, apparently. Who's a hypocrite here when I'm actually the one that's been correcting you on what's supposedly your domain of predilection, uh? And I'm not talking about nitpicking. What Tim Sweeney is enthusiastic about is physics in games and who can blame him really, yet what he said, to be exact, is: "We've been collaborating with Ageia since their inception, and Unreal Engine 3 thoroughly exploits the Novodex physics API." Yes, the NovodeX physics API. So, who's not paying attention (or rather, being dishonest) here? Want another quote on Tim's view of the market's evolution? "As with any new technology, there will be early games available that add hardware physics support into a mostly finished game design." Yeah, that add hardware support to a mostly finished game design. Man, guess he and I don't really disagree, now do we? So yeah, like I said the Unreal Engine 3.0 will use the SDK and therefore be compatible with the hardware card, but it's not their focus. And the way they chose PhysX doesn't differ from the one they chose Karma. Of course they have good hope for the development of hardware acceleration in that domain but that doesn't really go against what I was saying. I also hope hardware acceleration will make its way to the mainstream market and end up being at the core many games, just not in the form of Ageia's proprietary card at its current price. And yes, you're making quite a bit of assumptions, or deforming facts at best.
But you know, now that I look around the web, it seems that debate has really been going on for a while...
This article for example sums it up well enough I think, despite being a few months old, and I agree with most of the guy's points. And since we're at it, here's a recent interview of Tim Sweeney on physics.
Tiddlywinks said:
No, it's not what I'm saying at all, thankyou for putting words in my mouth. You're not the only one who can ignore what was said and then reiterate: If you had any clue about the game development process you'd know that early on, (especially when working with new tech) things are terribly unoptimised.
That's pretty much the same thing, you're just arguing that they're getting better. Being unoptimized seems an easy excuse to me, like you know, PR work. Got any example on Revolution though, pictures, videos? Since you know, the thread's about Cell Factor. And when's it coming out already? Do you have a date? Someone was wondering.
Tiddlywinks said:
Again with the assumptions, not everybody conducts discussions like yourself. The latter part was the first intelligent thing you've said so far.
Haha, so now you're not even trying to hide that you're bitter anymore?
When you run out of things to say you just start to get frustrated and offensive?
Tiddlywinks said:
My apologies. If you please, feel free to start another and we can continue the discussion there. It's pretty much on topic though, I'm not sure how many forums you frequent but this is hardly a thread derailment. Also, you're just as responsible as I, if you didn't attempt to refute my comments I wouldn't really have much more to say now, would I?
You know, you're the one that deviated the topic in the first place, and also the one that replied to me. Not the other way around. Now, I'm just telling you I'd like us to focus on Cell Factor since it's what we should be talking about. I don't think it's that hard to fathom, or is it? If
you care to make a dedicated thread, you make it. Otherwise you can at least live up to your claims of fandom and provide some information on the game when people ask them instead of solely arguing with me about petty things that in the end don't change the main premise.
Tiddlywinks said:
Please don't tell me I have to explain the concepts of "maybe" and "eventually" to you.
You know, who's replying to me in the first place? Or maybe you can't understand what I say and need to repeat it, only adding "maybe" and "eventually" to it? You're not really addressing what I said, is that because you can't deny it?
Tiddlywinks said:
No, I don't own one, not that you need to own an overpriced Alienware machine to. I've never implied I'll be buying one until there's actually some titles on shelf that would make the purchase worthy
Haha, Ok, so you can give Sparnage some advice there, right? He felt like buying the card early and all, that every game would need one soon. So you can confirm to him that it's not worth it right now and that he'd better wait for a while until he decides to invest? If even a fan like you's waiting I think it's pretty clear he should too. You see, in the end we all agree. Only some people can't put up to what they're babbling about. It's still going back to what I told Sparnage at first...
Tiddlywinks said:
I'm getting a bit of a feeling that you're running a fairly old shitbox, and the thought of having to fork out even more money could be where all this negativity is stemming from.
Actually it's a fairly powerful rig, but it can only run on BeOS.
Or I'm just an ATI/AMD fanboy? Did you think of that? I can't stand the thought of using anything NVIDIA or non-AMD. It just fills me with rage. Somehow that makes me feel closer to you, that last part.
Tiddlywinks said:
You're right for once, they don't heavily rely on the hardware. Your point? Their goal right now is to get as much support as possible, more "only on PhysX" games will come later. "Good games" is subjective.
If I'm right about that then I'm kind of right about the rest too, you know. I mean that's pretty much what I've been getting at since the beginning. And "good games" being subjective is just you being a hypocrite. All games are good! Come on... Let's talk about commercially successful games that attain a vast popularity if you prefer (which isn't the same thing, but yields roughly the same results). And my point is that they're using the SDK and that it's what makes it compatible with the hardware, all that. The hardware's currently optional, not a requirement. Actually it
will be, when these games come out. Basically going back to "that card won't be a must-have for most games before quite a while so I don't think it's worth it right now, and I'd wait before investing into one at all if I were you since the technology they use might not become an industry standard, thus possibly making it obsolete." It's been my point for a while really. You're being picky on everything and that's fine with me, but you're not disagreeing with that as far as I can tell? Because beyond all the quote by quote arguing I'm really just sticking to what I said in my first reply to Sparnage. I don't care much about the rest, this is what I'd like to hear your opinion on.
Tiddlywinks said:
Wow, that completely changes everything! Now I see how invalid comparing a card doing processing in place of the CPU to another one is! Because the ones I'm comparing it to exist!
Yeah well, I guess you just don't understand. It's simply that the industry isn't the same than it was at the time. I believe that makes it difficult to reproduce 3DFX's story passed the "company comes out with a new kind of card" aspect, and I don't think that's just what you meant. Remember how 2D cards and 3D cards merged together? Well I see something like it happening very fast here instead of Ageia becoming a market leader for gaming hardware for several years. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but both the market and the industry are different than they were at the time.
Tiddlywinks said:
No, their main strength is the hardware. Without it, their solution is no more impressive than other current offerings.
Is that so? I'm genuinely interested as to why you think so. Of course the hardware is very ambitious and that's what makes their solution special, but their middleware is what is quite successful right now, even among people that don't really plan to use the hardware (Sony?). I'm thinking that if they didn't have a strong SDK to begin with (NovodeX), they could have rather tried to make a more open card instead of relying on proprietary technology, that would have made it compatible with a lot more games. Their SDK is competitive on its own and it's what is giving them a base to market their hardware (did they buy Meqon so they'd work on the hardware?).
Tiddlywinks said:
My my. Yes, I did actually read what you said, and no I'm not stupid. I'm unsure whether you misunderstood what I said, or why I said it, so I'll break it down for you
The point was why you said it, as it didn't really affect my reply to Sparnage (that the games he mentioned weren't compatible with PhysX). Looking back on it that response was a bit over the top since you were just correcting it though. Guess it's the troll emoticon or something.
