China vs Taiwan

[SaiyajinNoOuji]

About school taught history:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050409/ap_on_re_as/china_japan_protest

They are arguing over a fucking island... I just dont get it sometimes... oh well.

 

[Griffith]

About school taught history:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050409/ap_on_re_as/china_japan_protest

Yes, idiotic Chinese nationalists hating the Japanese makes a great point about history taught throughout any and all places designated as centers of learning throughout all time. Good point, Doctor Science Professor. Better to quote Henry Ford on this subject:

"History is bunk."

 

[Aazealh]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050409/ap_on_re_as/china_japan_protest

On a different note (i.e. not arguing about whatever xechnao meant), it's true that the Japanese government isn't being cool on all that. They negate their own war crimes and claim lands that have never been theirs (they've been picking on Korea for a while about that).

Getting past the ridiculous claims in themselves, I don't think revisionism should be tolerated... German kids in school get taught about the Nazi and what they've done, that way they don't forget. If the Japanese government goes on like that, in 50 years Japanese kids might learn in school that Japan was betrayed and nuked because the USA were jealous of its cultural superiority.

 

[xechnao]

They are arguing over a fucking island... I just dont get it sometimes... oh well.

Here is an option:
http://www.asiamedia.ucla.edu/article.asp?parentid=21989

Yes, idiotic Chinese nationalists hating the Japanese makes a great point about history taught throughout any and all places designated as centers of learning throughout all time. Good point, Doctor Science Professor. Better to quote Henry Ford on this subject:

"History is bunk."

Aazealh got what I wanted to say.
Chinese suffered, Japaneese raped
And speaking about idiot nationalists go ask Koizumi

 

[Griffith]

Aazealh got what I wanted to say.
Chinese suffered, Japaneese raped
And speaking about idiot nationalists go ask Koizumi

No, Aaz got the point from the article or because he was already aware of the situation anyway, not from you and your posting clever blanket statements next to semi-related news links act, which I'm sick of, BTW.

skullknight.net suffered, Xechnao raped :'(

 

[ShinHell9]

Established indeed, ha. I'm still waiting to hear from you about the pure Marxist utopias out there, BTW.

I wouldn't be so bold as to say any government is pure.

 

[BiQ_]

I wouldn't be so bold as to say any government is pure.

...which is kinda the reason some of us (maybe you too, I dunno) are much more comfortable around governments who generally do not throw their own people into "re-training" camps or death row for saying "government sucks" in public. Having even a theoretical chance to actually change the government in an election is also a preferable option to some.

 

[Griffith]

I wouldn't be so bold as to say any government is pure.

I meant "pure" as in uncompromised Marxism. But hey, that shouldn't stop you from writing those words of wisdom on a men's room wall somewhere; I recommend the handicap stall.

See, looks pretty good up there.​

 

[xechnao]

No, Aaz got the point from the article or because he was already aware of the situation anyway, not from you and your posting clever blanket statements

skullknight.net suffered, Xechnao raped :'(

I think, you' ve got a problem over here. I posted that article first place to try and say what Aaz later tried to explain you, is this so difficult and hard to accept? :(

next to semi-related news links

And how is it semi-related?

...which is kinda the reason some of us (maybe you too, I dunno) are much more comfortable around governments who generally do not throw their own people into "re-training" camps or death row for saying "government sucks" in public. Having even a theoretical chance to actually change the government in an election is also a preferable option to some.

I guess this is what they taught you Marxism is, if this is what you are talking about here.

 

[Griffith]

I think, you' ve got a problem over here.

If you want to make any grammatical sense, you must be referring to yourself, and that would be a more accurate statement, as well.

I posted that article first place to try and say what Aaz later tried to explain you, is this so difficult and hard to accept?   :(.

No, from my perspective, you made a blanket statement, and vague one at that, about school taught history in general. Aaz clearly made a specific set of points about a specific situation relating directly to what's described in the article.

And how is it semi-related?

See above.

I guess this is what they taught you Marxism is, if this is what you are talking about here.

Here we go again, my point against you in a nutshell. ::)


Anyway, if it looks like I pick on you, that is true, but it's a compliment because you're more interesting to talk to than most, so I like to engage you when I can. :-*

 

[SaiyajinNoOuji]

Anyway, if it looks like I pick on you, that is true, but it's a compliment because you're more interesting to talk to than most, so I like to engage you when I can. :-*

But you said I WAS the only for you Griffith.... :'(

You're a two-timer!

Anyways, it is kinda sad about the Japanese thing and what not. People were very surprised when they saw the movie "Pearl Harbor". Also I remember asking my wife what she knew about WW2 and she really didn't know much about the event leading to it. Although she did have a perception that we (America) started it.

So I hate to educate her along with punch her in the face a few times, hahaha, jk. But yea. Quite strange why they hide it.

 

[ShinHell9]

I meant "pure" as in uncompromised Marxism.

oh uncompromised Marxism...I thought you were slamming Marxism, because alot of people like to slam anything remotely related to communism.

...which is kinda the reason some of us (maybe you too, I dunno) are much more comfortable around governments who generally do not throw their own people into "re-training" camps or death row for saying "government sucks" in public. Having even a theoretical chance to actually change the government in an election is also a preferable option to some.

Well it's true that this hasn't happened in the last two or three decades, but we're not as far in the evolutionary chain of government as many people think. It was only a generation or two ago that Black people were descriminated against, lawfully beaten, and not too far from all the japanese being sent off to camps because of world war 2. We're not really that far off from Fascism, thankfully we're not exactly like a Fascist government, but Democracy isn't magical, it can still be manipulated to one groups will.

 

[xechnao]

If you want to make any grammatical sense, you must be referring to yourself, and that would be a more accurate statement, as well.

No, from my perspective, you made a blanket statement, and vague one at that, about school taught history in general. Aaz clearly made a specific set of points about a specific situation relating directly to what's described in the article.
See above.

No, you see you are the one making blanket statements just for the sake of trolling.
If you read the article, it was pretty clear what I was talking about and you know it.  

Here we go again, my point against you in a nutshell. ::)
Anyway, if it looks like I pick on you, that is true, but it's a compliment because you're more interesting to talk to than most, so I like to engage you when I can. :-*

Instead of picking on somebody, which is trolling, I would rather have a discussion on actual matters. How about the link I provided to Saiya, which I believe tries to analize the eastern asia situation overall...do you think what this guy is saying is propably true, or not- and why.
I know it's long, but I think it's interesting enough, it worths it, doesn't it?

Although she did have a perception that we (America) started it.

About Hitler's rise, this is a very picky matter. Why and how it started very first place, well I wouldn't say that the "west" overall (and I am not excluding america) is not to blame.

 

[SaiyajinNoOuji]

Well Xech, I read as much as I could in that long article (I am at work you know  :)  )

It was very informative. I can readily admit that I am not the most politically active member in this board and to put it very bluntly, I hardly ever really pay attention to it unless I look at it on the newspaper stand when I go to Burger King or www.fark.com.

What I got from this though is...

China is going ahead and doing its thing in getting more world connections. Even in areas that the U.S. has designated "theirs". its good that China is finding out that it has to mix some capitalism in it's government as opposed to 100% communism.

What is not good is how its going about doing it. Making tensions between all the other major powers, but what can you do? Its just the nature of the beast.

I really wouldn't even know how to resolve this issue because its on such a grand scale that all the information is not really given to us.

All in all, IMHO I think if China continues its not going to get any better down the road. Its nice that they want to be with the big boys but if they go on their way without sharing the hill, its just going to start conflicts.


Also about the Japanese/China thing. China isn't doing a whole lot to stop the protests and violent acts. I also agree in from the article that Japan needs to unpussyfy themselves and go back to having a regular armed forces.  Not just based upon this article but also with the demand from the Okinawa area, they want and have gotten a deal to reduce the amount of service members from the U.S over here. Well hell not only does this hurt their economy but how are they going to defend themselves if the need arises?

I just think as a whole we as the world need to really step back, shut the hell up and think of a better plan on approaching the future. Granted it does sound like a pipedream but so was getting a man on the moon!  :-*

About Hitler's rise, this is a very picky matter. Why and how it started very first place, well I wouldn't say that the "west" overall (and I am not excluding america) is not to blame.

Let me be more specific. She thought the reason for Japan bombing America was their(Japan's) counter attack. She was under the impression that the U.S. started their war against japan first.

 

[ShinHell9]

Wasn't it part of the resolution to world war 2 that Japan no longer have a military? If Japan could regain the Naval power they once had, they'd be a force to reckon with.

 

[Griffith]

No, you see you are the one making blanket statements just for the sake of trolling.
If you read the article, it was pretty clear what I was talking about and you know it.

I disagree. There's many issues that could be addressed in that article, it deserves more than a flip remark; nothing would have been better. So please express your own position more throughly next time, for the sake of rock-headed Griff. ;)

Instead of picking on somebody, which is trolling, I would rather have a discussion on actual matters.

It meant I have elevated interest in the discussion when you're involved. Anyway, "Troll" is just a pejorative term, like "terrorist", please don't attempt to demean me in that way. :)

 

[Khorne]

History is always written by the winners

 

[Tristram]

"If theres one thing that America is good at, its bombing the shit out of brown people"
-George Carlin

Oh god. George Carlin and his brown people!!!!

 

[medievald00d]

Also about the Japanese/China thing. China isn't doing a whole lot to stop the protests and violent acts. I also agree in from the article that Japan needs to unpussyfy themselves and go back to having a regular armed forces.  Not just based upon this article but also with the demand from the Okinawa area, they want and have gotten a deal to reduce the amount of service members from the U.S over here. Well hell not only does this hurt their economy but how are they going to defend themselves if the need arises?

http://www.skycitygallery.com/japan/japan.html
http://www.technologyartist.com/unit_731/

Japan isnt allowed to have a military because the last time they had a military, they killed and raped millions of people.

 

[Griffith]

Japan isnt allowed to have a military because the last time they had a military, they killed and raped millions of people.

Well, to be fair, that's what a military is for, classically. Japan doesn't get one because they lost.

 

[Sanguinius]

But Japan does have a military and last i checked they had the second largest military budget in the world after the U.S.A. its just a formality that they do not call their army an army they really have a fairly strong military.

 

[BiQ_]

I guess this is what they taught you Marxism is, if this is what you are talking about here.

Well, it wasn't. And if it was, you'd guessed wrong. I was (to some degree, still am) a socialist myself, and the only thing I really have against the communist governments is the fact that they have ALL FAILED. I once believed that it'd be possible to have a socialist regime without putting people in jail for telling their opinions in public, nowadays I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe liberal leftist is best (unless you don't like the whole idea of taking care of your fellow people) humans can do.

 

[xechnao]

Well, it wasn't. And if it was, you'd guessed wrong. I was (to some degree, still am) a socialist myself, and the only thing I really have against the communist governments is the fact that they have ALL FAILED. I once believed that it'd be possible to have a socialist regime without putting people in jail for telling their opinions in public, nowadays I'm not so sure anymore. Maybe liberal leftist is best (unless you don't like the whole idea of taking care of your fellow people) humans can do.

IMO, this is not a factor anymore. You don't have the power nowhere to state your opinion publically today-and make that worth-, unless you are one of the caste (mass media access).

But Japan does have a military and last i checked they had the second largest military budget in the world after the U.S.A. its just a formality that they do not call their army an army they really have a fairly strong military.

It's their police force you are talking about I think. Nevertheless, they aren't allowed by their constitution to deploy out of Japan in an offensive.They also can't trade armies and weapons. Think now that their economy based on consumism is said to be reaching a stale point, living by their standards you understand why they want to change the constitution.

 

[Sanguinius]

No i really did mean their army they just don't call it an army they call it a Defence Force but yes it is against their Constitution to declare war on another country. The Japanese economy is a consumer economy but that is not what is causing their current problems one of the things causing problems today and over the past decade is the bad debt which it banking system piled up during the years of prosperity.

 

[Miyu]

Obviously, blueberserk -whose post you answered- wasn't talking about the 21st century.
And anyway, Chaing and the chinese refugees that followed him have nothing to do with the movement of Taiwan of so called independence of its natives today.

The 21st century?  What?  blueberserk was stating that he though the people of Taiwan are still considered the people of China, they all fled from China and now China wants them back.  I was talking about Taiwan's past and how it affects the tension between Taiwan and China since they fled for a reason.  And to say that the migration to Taiwan has nothing to do with how Taiwan is today is complete bull.  It's like saying that your childhood has nothing to do with how you've grown up as an adult.  Remember that the "split" happened in the 1930s, not centuries ago.  If you can give me specifics and facts that prove me wrong then I'd gladly retract my earlier statements.  Until then, I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.