So close yet so far.
Elden Ring (New From Soft Game)
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So close yet so far.
Miyazaki: "The actual collaboration itself begun with Mr. Martin ever so politely confirming what sorts of themes, ideas as well as many game-related aspects I had envisioned for the game.
This allowed us to have many free and creative conversations regarding the game, in which Mr. Martin later used as a base to write the overarching mythos for the game world itself.
This mythos proved to be full of interesting characters and drama along with a plethora of mystical and mysterious elements as well. It was a wonderful source of stimulus for me and the development staff.
Elden Ring’s world was constructed using this mythos and stimulus as a base. Even I myself find it hard to contain my excitement from time to time. We hope that everyone else is looking forward to the world we have created."
Taken from the xbox interview with Miyazaki.
This part feels pretty straight forward to me, what makes you think differently?
"You tell me you're a bookworm. What kind of books would I find on your shelf if I were to look right now?
First, you'd spot the manga shelf, with Devilman and Berserk lining the top."
The full interview is still accessible here if the simple post on a forum wasn't convincing you https://web.archive.org/web/2016102...uls-creator-miyazaki-on-zelda-sequels-w443435
This is literally what Masa and I were talking about. Not sure why you felt the need to reiterate. What he says is that he owns volumes of Berserk and Devilman (among other stuff) in answer to a question about what kind of books are on his shelf. That may be the "closest" to saying he's a fan, but it's still a step removed from saying it. That's what I meant. And it's far from saying Berserk has influenced his work. It's not what I would call straightforward at all in the context of this conversation.
As for GRRM, I read that interview when it was released. I don't think it says much. Go and read this whole thread and you'll see I quoted it myself 2 years ago.
Because to me it almost sounded as if you'd question whether he likes Berserk at all and I was confused by that.
If I'd ask you what's in your freezer and you'd say "there chocolate ice cream in it" I'd assume you mentioned specifically that because you like eating it and not because it's a random item that's been in there for years.
He even says it's at the top part of his manga shelf, the bookshelf you'd spot first. He doesn't use the word "fan" specifically but I don't see what else he'd mean by that.
If the "yet so far" part was also referring to whether Berserk influenced his game(s) then sure, there's nothing in the interview stating that.
Certainly no specifics, no. I guess we'll have to wait until after the release before we'd get those from GRRM, if at all.
Will check next time, sorry. I think at some point I read it but I didn't remember.
No, what he said in the DS1 Design Works interview was that when a designer handed him a sketch for the onion knight’s armor, he said it reminded him of Bazuso’s armor in Berserk. That’s it. Also, during promotional interviews for DS3, he said the powerful swing of the great sword was like Guts swinging his sword.
Hidetaka Miyazaki Rolling Stone/Glixel Interview
I just read this interview. It gives more insight of how Miyazaki designs his games Here are a few snippets Many journalists over the years have said that the Souls games, from Demon's on up through Bloodborne and Dark Souls, is what The Legend of Zelda should have evolved into. How do...www.neogaf.com
Probably the closest to him stating he's a Berserk fan.
I also remember interviews where he said the Catarina armour was based on Basuzo, and greatsword builds are meant to play like Guts.
Many of the game’s inspirations are clear. But what he’s commented on is quite slim. All the rest is fan interpretation.
I guess you should have read the exchange more carefully before replying.
That it's on the top shelf doesn't mean anything in particular. Anyway, that this one line out of this one interview is all you've got going really says it all.
He doesn't say he's a fan of Berserk in a straightforward manner. Saying "it's among the books on my shelf" isn't a straightforward way of saying "I'm a big fan of something". So he hasn't said that, and like I wrote originally, he hasn't publicly commented on how influenced by Berserk his works are. That doesn't mean they aren't influenced by it, but it might mean he lacks the class to say that they are.
I'm super glad that multiplayer is coming back: https://www.gamesradar.com/elden-ring-co-op-multiplayer-confirmed-for-up-to-four-players/You guys sound super salty (not just Kenny), but I finally watched the trailer and it really looks like Dark Souls II 2! I'm fine with that though, would have been fine with Dark Souls 4 frankly, really didn't want something too different, because even Sekiro was enough of a departure that I didn't love it, though I see a little of its more dynamic movement here. It'll be all about how it plays and "feels" to me; if it's got half the magic of Bloodborne it'll be great (but I didn't get that impression, it looked more like Souls with some of Sekiro's color mixed in). It is kind of funny though that this cult sprung up around this game and has been slavishly following its non-development for over a year only to find out it's basically just Dark Souls 4 by any other name.
It was always big part of the experience for me with those games.
Fair enough. Those were the only things I could recall off the top of my head.
I've seen numerous articles stating Miyazaki has done several interviews expressing his Berserk inspiration but I've yet to find one.
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I've always thought the connection fans see between Berserk and Souls has been exaggerated in a sense. It's clearly influenced by it, but Berserk is influencial in general, particularly in the genre; like LotR, people are already imitating the imitaters of Berserk at this point, so at least Miyazaki has acknowledged he's aware of Berserk. But this has spurred a lot of a speculation and unfortunately misinformation that Miyazaki was friends with Miura or that the latter was somehow creatively involved with Souls, which is all completely baseless. At best it seems Miyazaki recognizes similarities but won't go beyond that, perhaps fairly given that Souls isn't particularly like Berserk in terms of storytelling content. It could even be seen as a presumptuous comparison for one to make.
Of course, in Elden Ring if you travel around the map using that big golden world tree...
Of course, in Elden Ring if you travel around the map using that big golden world tree...
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The vast majority of what you'll read online about Berserk's influence on From Soft's games is overeager fan correlation because they both occupy the same genre of dark fantasy. Fans love one thing, they see some similarities, and assume that one must have directly informed the other. Of course, one can believe whatever they want, but as far as what From Soft's team has actually said about their inspirations, one of the primary ones were tabletop game books and fantasy books.
As for myself, I do see some connection. When I read descriptions of the "cursed darksign," the "red/blue eye orb" that serves as a summoning stone, and various other things like the Artorias fight, it's really hard not to see some of Berserk's ideas shining through to Dark Souls. But often the correlation goes too far. Pigeonholing Berserk as the Souls series' primary influence does a disservice to the people who made it. Some select elements from Berserk can be seen, but it's a creative, cool fantasy world in its own right. I get frustrated when I see things like "It's basically Berserk: The Game."
Of course, it's really hard for me to continue to think of their worlds as "cool and creative" when I'm looking at basically the same one over and over for three games. But I understand that I'm in the minority on this one.
As for myself, I do see some connection. When I read descriptions of the "cursed darksign," the "red/blue eye orb" that serves as a summoning stone, and various other things like the Artorias fight, it's really hard not to see some of Berserk's ideas shining through to Dark Souls. But often the correlation goes too far. Pigeonholing Berserk as the Souls series' primary influence does a disservice to the people who made it. Some select elements from Berserk can be seen, but it's a creative, cool fantasy world in its own right. I get frustrated when I see things like "It's basically Berserk: The Game."
Of course, it's really hard for me to continue to think of their worlds as "cool and creative" when I'm looking at basically the same one over and over for three games. But I understand that I'm in the minority on this one.
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Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Yeah, falsely equating them really does do a disservice to them both, because while it's nice to give Berserk more credit for its influence, Dark Souls isn't Berserk: The Game either, as you say. Basically, neither should be made out to be really representative of the other.
ANYWAY, about ELDEN RING, like Aaz I'm also curious about what and how much GRRM is contributing. I had heard he wrote background information and Miyazaki will still be driving the game progression, but is it merely a summary backstory the From Soft team is incorporating or jumping off from or did he do a full history for this world? Or is it a completely different style collaboration than rumored, speaking of fan hearsay? I'm looking forward to seeing how his involvement ultimately sets this apart since it looks extremely Souls-like with maybe some more high fantasy elements incorporated.
At this point, maybe we should acknowledge what we consider Souls-like in style, not just gameplay but artwork, advertising, etc is basically From-like under Miyazaki.
ANYWAY, about ELDEN RING, like Aaz I'm also curious about what and how much GRRM is contributing. I had heard he wrote background information and Miyazaki will still be driving the game progression, but is it merely a summary backstory the From Soft team is incorporating or jumping off from or did he do a full history for this world? Or is it a completely different style collaboration than rumored, speaking of fan hearsay? I'm looking forward to seeing how his involvement ultimately sets this apart since it looks extremely Souls-like with maybe some more high fantasy elements incorporated.
At this point, maybe we should acknowledge what we consider Souls-like in style, not just gameplay but artwork, advertising, etc is basically From-like under Miyazaki.
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The lists of “Berserk references in Dark Souls” annoy the absolute hell out of me lol. Just full of superficial similarities to things that are very common in Western fantasy/European art and mythology. Berserker Guts being a basis for Artorias, yeah maybe. The Taurus Demon being a reference to Zodd? They’re only similar in that they have minotaur-ish designs. The catacomb skeletons being a reference to that time Guts fought skeletons in Black Swordsman? Do they really believe that the idea of animate skeletons with weapons is unique to Berserk?
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
So, not only does this game resemble Dark Souls (you can't stop the CURSE if we extinguish your FLAME, tarnished one! Tarnished=cursed=ashen, pretty sure I saw off-brand Smough, Anor Londo and the white wyvern from DS3 in there, etc), but it also doesn't appear much different than Dark Souls III visually, and I might like the graphic design of that game, and definitely Bloodborne's, better. What has From Soft been doing that it took so many year's of top secret development to make basically a reskined DS3? Like the difference between Demon's and Dark Souls, maybe the distinction is in the world design, if this one is truly vast and seamless between it's overworld and dungeons. That could make all the difference in the world if it gives it a truly impactful atmosphere, like the oppressive, survivalist vibe of early Dark Souls.
Vampire_Hunter_Bob
Cats are great
Isn't it obvious? They have been animating magical horses. I'm surprised it didn't take longer!
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Isn't it obvious? They have been animating magical horses. I'm surprised it didn't take longer!
Magical horses with two horns: a Bifurcorn! It looks like you're riding a cow or something. Of course, for all the jokes this game will have the last laugh on me when I play it for like 300 hours or something. It's happened for every From Soft Souls-like except Demon's (I accidentally activated the end/NG+ before I was ready and it kinda killed my enthusiasm) and Sekiro.
And the Taurus demon doesn't even look much like a minotaur. No Hooves, Ram horns, the head looks completely different than Zodd's...
They're both just big hairy humanoids with horns.
Elden Ring: The Big Hidetaka Miyazaki Interview - Summer of Gaming - IGN
Elden Ring's gameplay trailer left a lot of questions still to be answered – but thankfully we spent an hour with creator Hidetaka Miyazaki to get answers to a lot of them. Here's our interview, in full.
This was a good interview with Miyazaki on how GRRM’s influence was brought in to inspire the world and character design.
I see a lot of the FromSoft DNA all around that trailer for sure.
I think it looks gorgeous but I remain skeptical that mashing together most of From’s design work over the past 12 years into a single game is a good idea.
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
I was actually still confused by the primacy of GRRM's contributions versus From just doing whatever was necessary for the sake of the game progression (his involvement seems most vital to the marketing of the game =).
I was also disappointed they didn't ask more about stuff that wasn't obviously similar to Souls etc from the trailer, like get him to say what truly makes this different or stand out from those games so it's not merely the next iteration. I think with Bloodborne that'd be pretty easy to clearly answer both concerning the gameplay, art design and story elements, so Miyazaki making that case for Elden Ring would have been exciting and I felt like he was prepared to say more in the end.
The biggest theme seemed to be more freedom and options, but maybe with the caveat some of those options and guidance might bypass the traditional difficulty of these games. I could be wrong though, in general if I had to guess it'd be that they error on the side of it being inscrutably difficult. =)
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Elden Ring: The Big Hidetaka Miyazaki Interview - Summer of Gaming - IGN
Elden Ring's gameplay trailer left a lot of questions still to be answered – but thankfully we spent an hour with creator Hidetaka Miyazaki to get answers to a lot of them. Here's our interview, in full.www.ign.com
This was a good interview with Miyazaki on how GRRM’s influence was brought in to inspire the world and character design.
Seems pretty much the same thing we were told two years ago. I guess GRRM spent an afternoon chatting with Miyazaki, then maybe spent a couple days writing down a world history with some key characters, then From used that as the basic lore for the game. What's striking is that it all feels very Souls-like to the point where it's not very distinct from previous iterations. I guess there may be specific things that'll be more clear when playing the game, but it's certainly not obvious at first glance.
"The Lands Between" with its giant magical tree towering above the landscape feels like it could have been lifted directly from Berserk for example, and the Tarnished who have "fallen from grace" and been exiled are basically Cursed Ones v3.2. I guess the twist this time is they're coming back from exile?
As for the great heroes of the past who have fallen and turned into twisted reflections of their former selves... I mean... That's always been in Miyazaki's games too.I didn't quite dare to say it, but it's always what it sounded like to me.
Honestly I think it's more a matter of whether they want/know how to do anything else. The gameplay and systems slowly evolved with each previous title, with Bloodborne and Sekiro especially being attempts at trying new things, but it never deviated too far from the core design and distinct style they're famous for. It's not at all surprising to me that it's the same with this game. That's why so far, no matter what they say, this feels like just another iteration in the same series.
It seems like I'm in the advantage of not having played Dark Souls 1-3 yet as long as it's a step in the right direction I don't mind if it feels similar, it'll probably feel like a (heavily) improved Demon's Souls to me. At least the trailers feel closer to that than to Bloodborne
as long as it's a step in the right direction I don't mind if it feels similar, it'll probably feel like a (heavily) improved Demon's Souls to me. At least the trailers feel closer to that than to Bloodborne
Looks like a dark souls 3 dlc.... cool i guess....
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
Yeah, after seeing the world tree and then reading about "the lands between" I immediately thought it was basically another way of saying the interstice. Like, wow, this isn't going to help the From Soft/Berserk confusion.
the Tarnished who have "fallen from grace" and been exiled are basically Cursed Ones v3.2. I guess the twist this time is they're coming back from exile?
Even that's pretty much identical to the dynamics of the Lords of Cinder and Ashen Ones of DS3, the difference being they're all returning in that case. One of the things I liked about that though was it seemed almost self-aware, such as when Lord Lothric, a boss that had given up on the quest for fire, mocks you for being another "dogged contender" perpetuating this futile cycle, which is basically a commentary on all the Dark Souls players and games at that point.
Here we go again, I guess.
It's the way they repeat his name for like brand recognition at the beginning of all these story answers but the substance of those answers is just the same kind of stuff they've always done.
That's the curious part, they emphasize this end of Dark Souls with part 3 but then do a smaller, more specifically refined variant in Sekiro, and now yet another iteration of almost the same broad action RPG concept as Souls. For all the talk of how they're changing the formula, it's always a formula that's basically equivalent to the old one. I'm fine with this being their thing, but then don't pretend you're reinventing the wheel or it seems like you're just advertising a product as "new" that you really only changed the name of. It seems to me the only reason this isn't the next Souls game is so they can credibly tout GRRM's importance in the creation of this new IP and associate him as co-creator with all merchandise and future installments, etc. And then if it's not that much bigger, there's always Dark Souls 4 and Bloodborne 2, etc. Or some other name for their spiritual successors. Like, I'm not advocating they keep making the same game, but if you're going to keep making Mario games anyway just call them Mario games and find ways and mechanics to make each distinctive (or like Resident Evil). That'd almost be better than repeatedly doing this sort of faux-reboot where the names change but the games stay largely the same.
It seems like I'm in the advantage of not having played Dark Souls 1-3 yet
I would still play the original Dark Souls because it's just a really special game individually. It's old and different enough that it's probably not going to really make the new game seem redundant either. Ironically, Bloodborne was originally the one directly connected to the world of Demon's Souls. Umbasa.
I don't know, because I'd certainly dig more DS3, while the jury is still out on this.
Yep, it's the equivalent of a new color finish for this year's smartphone.
I guess the "open world" aspect is where it's supposed to deviate this time, but frankly the six zones you can "mostly" explore in "almost" the order you want basically remind me of Demon's Souls. But we'll see, maybe it's really a giant world you can get lost in for hundreds of hours. Fine by me if so, perillous exploration is where it's at.
Well I imagine they also wanted a new story/setting and figured they might as well change the title. Which I can understand and respect to be honest, because I think it's what Capcom should have done with Resident Evil for example. On the other hand...
Yeah, Mario Sunshine is probably more different from Mario Galaxy than this will be from Dark Souls.
Griffith
With the streak of a tear, Like morning dew
This is like the signature model finish "designed" by a celebrity endorser. It's the nerdy dark fantasy equivalent of Kendall Jenner hawking your product on twitter.
Even that's basically Dark Souls 1, which is about as open and interconnected as it is unforgiving. I feel like they're just going to add more empty travel space that's basically filler (some of those scenic shots in the trailer looked like the opening titles of Zelda: Twilight Princess =). I mean, if it's more like the Souls equivalent of BotW, I'm definitely interested, but for now I'm skeptical.
I can see that argument, but on the other hand, just expand on what that world can contain. I feel like they change the names but the world and story stay too similar to the previous concept instead of forcing them to grow and be like, "Ok, it's Dark Souls 4, we can't just do the same stuff again; what's new this time?" ...Besides the adjectives.
Yeah, Mario Sunshine is probably more different from Mario Galaxy than this will be from Dark Souls.
Exactly, there's plenty of redundant Mario or Zelda games, but they also have to shake things up every once in a while for better or worse. I'm not really seeing that invention or risk here, even with the distinctions they've mentioned (even the summoning and magic just look like renamed or repurposed mechanics from before).
The big caveat is if Elden Ring gives me the same feeling as Souls and Bloodborne, I won't care about any of this shit and will love it, so maybe they're wise not to change it too much. =)
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It's on my list but I probably won't have the time before Elden Ring releases, there are too many games and I*m such a slow player.
Was the connection of Bloodborne initially planned (and then cut) or something you could deduce from the plot (item descriptionsl dialogue, ...)? I'm not finished with BB yet but everything seemed very different from Demon's Souls so far. Oh Amygdala, give me the insight to see the answer!