Gaiseric's Kingdom BEFORE Void?

[Walter]

Just one thing about the 216 years thing
Could it be that the years they were talking about count differently from standard human years?
For humans in the physical world or realm, a year normally would mean a complete circle of the seasons
But what about the other two realms or for example the zone of godhand?
Could it be that we shouldn't consider those 216 years indication the way we do?
Just a thought

I dont see any evidence to believe that "demon years" are any different than "human years".

The only disputable proof I can find on the subject is that "dog years" count 7 times as fast as "human years". Amazing!

 

[ShinHell9]

You two are counting on there being a previous five God Hand, BEFORE Gaiseric's age. I strongly doubt it, and I wish I could find the famed interview where Miura supposedly has said: "Void is the first God Hand" ... but I can't...

It may be possible that Gaiseric grew so large in power that he was able to challenge the idea itself, so the idea decided to bring the 4 unknown angels to destroy his kingdom along with him, and because of his growth in power, the godhand was established. also possible that Gaiseric could've tried to fight the 4 angels themselves wearing a certain accursed armor, and from there the skullknight-gaiseric speculations have basis.
The 4 angels could be some kind of christian religion parallel (4 horsemen), and the world could've come close to an end there, but I like to think that my first paragraph is what happened...

 

[Headless_Death]

Just one thing about the 216 years thing
Could it be that the years they were talking about count differently from standard human years?
For humans in the physical world or realm, a year normally would mean a complete circle of the seasons
But what about the other two realms or for example the zone of godhand?
Could it be that we shouldn't consider those 216 years indication the way we do?
Just a thought

I still think that a year is still one full earth revolution around the sun, no matter what realm you may be in, the earth still revolves around it.

As far as if you are doing as walter has said as the only possible debate as a demon years(as in like dog years), that is only age, and possibly interpretation of time, it does not increase nor decrease speed the earth revolves around the sun.
Therefor a year is still a year. :)

It may be possible that Gaiseric grew so large in power that he was able to challenge the idea itself, so the idea decided to bring the 4 unknown angels to destroy his kingdom along with him, and because of his growth in power, the godhand was established.

How could Gaseric challenge the collective subconscence of man ????

also possible that Gaiseric could've tried to fight the 4 angels themselves wearing a certain accursed armor, and from there the skullknight-gaiseric speculations have basis.
The 4 angels could be some kind of christian religion parallel (4 horsemen), and the world could've come close to an end there, but I like to think that my first paragraph is what happened...

I think that's an interesting theory. ;D

 

[Aconyro]

People should not be "thinking" a year is one earth revolution around the sun. They should be sure. It's kind of the definition of year. Things like "dog years" are a mere laymen's way to compare the relationships between lifespans while taking into account relative time. One must always remeber that time is relative.

 

[xechnao]

I dont see any evidence to believe that "demon years" are any different than "human years".

The only disputable proof I can find on the subject is that "dog years" count 7 times as fast as "human years". Amazing!

It's not amazing, it's not too far fetched either IMO...
Apostles function differently than men...They are not dependent from seasons as men and well they don't age like men
Perhaps the way apostles count years has to do with the eclipses
Humans count with seasons and to us it is a standard 365 days.

I still think that a year is still one full earth revolution around the sun, no matter what realm you may be in, the earth still revolves around it.

In medieval Europe people believed that the earth wasn't going around the sun...just the oposite
Still I don't know what wizards knew...
Anyway remember that the ideal world depends from human belief
I don't know if this could also influence the spiritual-astral and material world in a way but it is possible

 

[Headless_Death]

It's not amazing, it's not too far fetched either IMO...
Apostles function differently than men...They are not dependent from seasons as men and well they don't age like men
Perhaps the way apostles count years has to do with the eclipses
Humans count with seasons and to us it is a standard 365 days.

In that case I don't think that SK has been apposing the god hand for 1000 years(eclipses) when charlete said that Gaseric's Empire was 1000 years(REAL years), this would just be 994 more years(eclipses) than previously stated, or 214704 Years(Real Years). Just not likely, or IMO not possible.

 

[xechnao]

In that case I don't think that SK has been apposing the god hand for 1000 years(eclipses) when charlete said that Gaseric's Empire was 1000 years(REAL years), this would just be 994 more years(eclipses) than previously stated, or 214704 Years(Real Years).  Just not likely, or IMO not possible.

Perhaps Zodd was talking about real years...
And when I talked about eclipses I didn't imply any math into it
We don't know every how many 'real' years an eclipse or a "GH-important" eclipse occurs
And the whole thing was just to say that perhaps we shouldn't count the 216 year and GH thing the way we do because perhaps it meant a different thing
We don't have a clue about the GHs other than they are five and that Griffith is the last one

 

[Headless_Death]

Perhaps Zodd was talking about real years...

Why would he judge years differently than EVERY other apostle.

And when I talked about eclipses I didn't imply any math into it

Obviously

We don't know every how many 'real' years an eclipse or a "GH-important" eclipse occurs
And the whole thing was just to say that perhaps we shouldn't count the 216 year and GH thing the way we do because perhaps it meant a different thing

Check webster's, what else could it mean

We don't have a clue about the GHs other than they are five and that Griffith is the last one

and that void has conections with SK, probably putting him in around the same time.

 

[xechnao]

Why would he judge years differently than EVERY other apostle.

Because he was talking to Sk and not another apostle

Obviously

Yeah but it seems it wasn't so obvious to you before

Check webster's, what else could it mean

What are you talking about?

and that void has conections with SK, probably putting him in around the same time.

No, this is speculation

 

[Headless_Death]

Because he was talking to Sk and not another apostle

I hardly think he would ever have to dumb anything down to SK.

Yeah but it seems it wasn't so obvious to you before

Yeah, it was, which is why I explained the math to you since you didn't seem to understand it before, glad you do now. :)

What are you talking about?

Webster's is a very well published dictionary, and within it's covers you will find definition of a year.

No, this is speculation

Yeah, but it least it's based on evidence.

 

[xechnao]

I hardly think he would ever have to dumb anything down to SK.

Yeah, it was, which is why I explained the http://skullknight.net/bbs/math to you since you didn't seem to understand it before, glad you do now. :)

Webster's is a very well published dictionary, and within it's covers you will find definition of a year.

Yeah, but it least it's based on evidence.

What I was saying firstplace is that the data in the maths you are using might be out of place
This is because the 216 years the apostles mentioned might not be considered for the manga's story as explained in webster's for you Headless Death

 

[Headless_Death]

What I was saying firstplace is that the data in the maths you are using might be out of place
This is because the 216 years the apostles mentioned might not be considered for the manga's story as explained in webster's for you Headless Death

In that case it still does not match, unless an eclipse happens once a year, which it does not.
For if an eclipse happens say only 10 years
10000 does not = 1000
If you would like to calculate the amount of "real years" is in a demon year, use this equation

1000(d)=1000
d=Demon Year

Care to solve. :)

 

[xechnao]

In that case it still does not match, unless an eclipse happens once a year, which it does not.
For if an eclipse happens say only 10 years
10000 does not = 1000
If you would like to calculate the amount of "real years" is in a demon year, use this equation

1000(d)=1000
d=Demon Year

Care to solve. :)

You are still wrong:

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html

 

[Headless_Death]

You are still wrong:

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html

All I got from the site is the average number of total solar eclipse over period of time.  According to this a total solar eclipse happens once every 1.6 years.  so in the equation of demon years
1000(1.6)=1000

Hmmm. already there is a problem, for 1600 does not even come close to 1000. 

Also the eclipses are not standard set times according to the site, since many different orbits and rotations apply to them. This would not make sense to guage time upon something so irregular.

If my equation is wrong, please correct it, or explain.  Just common manners for criticism. ;)

 

[xechnao]

All I got from the site is the average number of total solar eclipse over period of time.  According to this a total solar eclipse happens once every 1.6 years.  so in the equation of demon years
1000(1.6)=1000

Hmmm. already there is a problem, for 1600 does not even come close to 1000. 

Also the eclipses are not standard set times according to the site, since many different orbits and rotations apply to them.  This would not make sense to guage time upon something so irregular.

If my equation is wrong, please correct it, or explain.  Just common manners for criticism. ;)

I didn't say that a demon year is the time among the eclipses definatelly
What I said is the 216 years clue we have perhaps means a different thing from the way we use it to do our calculations
Perhaps it's referring to normal human years but it is more of a chant that accompanies the ritual than actual exact data in practice
Or perhaps the 1000 years Charlotte said or even Zodd to Sk were more approximative and legendary as data than data to be used with mathematical accuracy
This to say that this whole question about GH and how and when they rised to their status can not be answered yet exactly

 

[Aconyro]

The way I figure this is that 216 is an exact, while 1000 is an estimate. The Elemental Kings destroyed the kingdom probably starting with Gaiseric himself. But Void the king's wiseman who had summoned them out of his growing hatred for the material world wanted them to destroy everything but he could not control them. So, Gaiseric's strongest knight, SK, found the power to stop Void and thought he had killed him. Yet being a powerful wizard Void lived. Later Void used self mutilation and torture to reach the Idea of evil and to figure out a way to make himself immortal so he could achieve the goal which the elemental kings had failed to acheive for him. During this process, he learned of an ancient ritual (or created one) to make behelits to summon the powers of evil. The behelits caused apostles which followed their master, Void. SK of course fought these in an attempt to find and kill Void and also had find ways to prolong his own life (probably why he eats behelits, to destroy them and prolong his life). Yet SK failed to stop Void and he finally made the behelit he needed to become immortal. With the idea of evil as his advisor he laid the groundwork for a ritual using five individuals to destroy the material realm with four to be guided by him. Then he waited for the time at which there is enough energy coming from the spiritual realm into the material realm (happens every 216 years). The time came and Void with the help of evil itself sacrificed an entire city (that was probably his main hiding place and contained the largest amount of his apostles) so that his and Idea's plan would begin with him becoming the first member of the hand of god. It would take nearly a thousand years but by hiding from SK (No apostle summoning except for a protector here and there), he would summon allies, fill the hand, and begin the destruction of the material realm.



But hey, it's just a theory, so do what you will with it.

 

[Headless_Death]

The way I figure this is that 216 is an exact, while 1000 is an estimate.

My thoughts exactly, I think that the 1080 would be closer to the exact time, so that it lines better with the 216.

I always liked to think that SK was Gaseric, not just his best knight, but a very interesting theory nonetheless. I just hope that more of SK will be unraveled. :)

 

[Smith]

So, Gaiseric's strongest knight, SK, found the power...

::)

 

[Tiddlywinks]

[quote author=xechnao]


You are still wrong:

http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/eclipse.html
[/quote]

Who's to say eclipses in the Berserk universe occur at the same frequency as in our own?

 

[xechnao]

Who's to say eclipses in the Berserk universe occur at the same frequency as in our own?

Why not?
It has a sun like ours, a moon like ours, day and night like ours, normal life like ours...it seems to represent earth or something paralel to it on general terms
With your logic one could ask who's to say that years in BERSERK or days and nights last as ours?

 

[Walter]

With your logic one could ask who's to say that years in BERSERK or days and nights last as ours?

Wel if I remember correctly, I think you tried to pull similar logic around episode 235 with the "moon scene" w/ Griff and Zodd.

I see the "1000 years" and "Millennium Falcon" references as "~1000 years..." and "~Millennium Falcon" Who cares if its 1-80 years off?

 

[xechnao]

Wel if I remember correctly, I think you tried to pull similar logic around episode 235 with the "moon scene" w/ Griff and Zodd.

No, you remember wrong...
The only thing I ve said is that Ganishka should have been moving very quickly from his castle to catch up with Guts...
Obviously later on we saw that it wasn't Ganishka but the old Dhalsimguru unintroduced till that point of the story

 

[Rakshas]

Dhalsimguru... ;D... nice... It said that his name is Dna. You are talking of Master Dna right ?

 

[Aconyro]

Ah, C'mon smith, if your gonna roll your eyes at something at least give a suggestion for some sort of change.

If it's becuase Gaiseric and SK aren't the same person in my theory. The reason I theorized SK to be Gaiserics strongest knight is because it puts him closer to Guts, not a king but a badass.

But if it's the found the power part just change found to had, it sounds better that way anyway.

:)

 

[Walter]

If it's becuase Gaiseric and SK aren't the same person in my theory. The reason I theorized SK to be Gaiserics strongest knight is because it puts him closer to Guts, not a king but a badass.

But... In episode 220, Slan refers to Skull Knight as "King"