Heavenly Sword... a sort of female God of war?
- Thread starter Hi_There
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Aazealh said:
averaging about a 7-8. Honestly thats not bad (Lair was a complete bomb), or at least what I was expecting.
I'm expecting to like it more than Warhawk (which scored better), just 'cause its more my type of game.
Still no outstanding games for the PS3, it seems. Things look bleak for Sony this holiday.
handsome rakshas
Thanks Grail!
I played a short demo of this game and it's ok at best. It plays well, the only thing is it plays like games I've tried a million times before. Warhawk on the other hand looks pretty cool and I want to try it out.
Heavenly Sword looks like more of a tech demo than a game. I didn't expect much more than a 7 for its score. Is a God of War III planned yet?
And MGS 4 is already a phenomenon. It'll push some units regardless of how its ultimately judged, and it'll keep SONY afloat until Crash Bandicoot: Trouble in 20XX hits the shelves.
Not this year, but hype is still pretty active on the console. Check GameStats, people are still wetting their pants for these games, even if they do blow chunks. http://www.gamestats.com/index/gpm/playstation-3.htmlCnC said:
And MGS 4 is already a phenomenon. It'll push some units regardless of how its ultimately judged, and it'll keep SONY afloat until Crash Bandicoot: Trouble in 20XX hits the shelves.
CnC said:
I think Jaffe said he might be working on a new Twisted Metal game first.
Walter said:
Yeah I've read some rather harsh stuff about Heavenly Sword outside of the usual review sites. Apparently it's pretty but not much more. And God of War 3 has been announced but it won't be released before 2009 at best.
Walter said:
I get an error when I try to access the page, but anyway, Internet hype doesn't sell games, and it doesn't bring in money to developers either. In that regard those stats are meaningless. I think the PS3 fiasco will really cost Sony and that it'll have serious consequences on the next 5 years for them.
Walter said:
Yeah but MGS games are far from being the ultimate system sellers, unlike what one may think. The MGS series has a large cult following, but MGS3 sold less than 4 million units worldwide when Halo 2 sold over 8 million... And the PS2 was more established than the Xbox then, unlike now with the X360 and PS3. It won't turn things around all by itself. That's why when Sony said they didn't care about GTA IV being multiplatform everybody laughed at them, because GTA: San Andreas sold 15 million units on PS2.
Small correction there for you Aazealh, while you are correct in MGS3 only being 4 million+, MGS2 itself sold around 7-8 million (I believe some sources say 10 mil+, but I think that's a bit far fetched other than the accurate value). You can pull the line whichever way you want, but the "MGS" series on the PS2 alone sold well over 10 million, even if its a majority of the MGS fanbase that was buying it, I think its got enough rope to pull with the other "Big Console pushers", maybe not as mainstream as GTA and Halo obviously, (as you mentioned San Andreas 15+mil) but its still a heavy push and as far as I can see is the only chance Sony has right now till some GoW 3 announcement, other than that, I can't think of any exclusives that doesn't have Sony biting their nails on right now.Aazealh said:
Manji said:
I said 4 million-.
Manji said:
Most sources I read say it's around 5.5, and I think that's a more realistic number. It didn't even sell a million in Japan, and I don't remember NPD talking about over 4 million copies sold in the USA.
Manji said:
See above.
Manji said:
Final Fantasy XIII? In any case, Snake Eater sold less than the previous episodes and I don't see something indicating an inverse trend for the next episode, especially since like I said, the PS2 had a lot more market shares then than the PS3 will have in 2008. Hell, selling 5 million units would be a 1:1 game/console ratio. It's just not going to happen. Metal Gear Solid 4 will sell, no doubt about it, but by itself it's not going to turn the tables around for the PS3 (although I'm sure many people are waiting for it to buy the console). How many copies has Portable Ops sold so far? Yeah.
TECHNICALITYAazealh said:
Not to get in a citation war here, but I've found a decent amount of sources non wiki related that hit at the very least 7 million for shipped and sold copies of MGS2, with dates starting as early as 2003.To further point your statement being rather flawed here, MGS2 sales figures in Japan were over 442,000 with the regular edition alone in its first week of availability with well over 60,000 sales in its special edition format, so you're doubtful statement of even a million is a bit off, and mind you, these are sources I found relatively easy, not something mind boggling to add up.Aazealh said:
! I expected a little more out of you in particular! Maybe you seem to forget my entire point of this statement. Metal Gear Solid 2 did not sell seven million plus copies simply because of the fanbase. Most sources for the original Metal Gear Solid were around six million to date, if not less prior to the launch of MGS2. You could argue MGS3 is the least favored game in the series or...Aazealh said:
Realize that MGS2 being released in 2001 was shortly over a year after the release of the PS2. To say that the console had even sold half of its 100 million+ units at this point is a bit far fetched itself. However, my "point" was not that MGS3 was a damnable game among the fanbase, it was the fact Metal Gear Solid 2 had landed at a pivotal point in the PS2's cycle that allowed itself to be fueled off a very bleak library, namely on the Playstation 2. To further prove this, games like Onimusha, Max Payne, Devil May Cry (ok, maybe its "third" is a better example) and even Jak and Dexter faired better with their original games than their sequels, which I'm sure many people find better to some degree, yet this did not translate into sales as after a certain point, Xbox, Gamecube and even the Playstation 2 itself began building up a larger library that began to divide sales of these franchises.
I wasn't suggesting the inverse case for the Playstation 3, and I doubt it would be trickier to see an influx in console sales based upon the PS3's glaring pricetag compared to the $300 PS2, yet to say it won't cause a fair raise in the PS3's growth is a bit undermining. Obviously, it's not enough to catapult it into 10+ million units like the 360 and Wii, and hopefully you weren't thinking that was my idea.
*head desk* My apologies for going so incredibly off topic, wow. In a blatant attempt to get on topic (to begin with) sans IGN's (being a minority) retarded review, which basically seems to praise the game and magically throws it a 7 for reasons that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me, I'm going to go out on a limb and say the better portioned reviews are a bit more to scale in this case. I've heard from a lot of friends the demo had its moments, so hopefully the final product is worth looking into.CnC said:Heavenly sword, people.... HEAVENLY SWORD. Take that MGS sheit elsewhere
I think I will pick up this game. Was playing the demo again and the combat started to click. It looks like some mindless fun mixed with a good presentation. Sign me up.
Manji said:
"HERE IS A SMALL CORRECTION THAT DOESN'T ACTUALLY CORRECT ANYTHING AND PLEASE DON'T MIND IF I MISQUOTE YOU TO MAKE YOU AGREE WITH ME BECAUSE READING CAN BE HARD SOMETIMES."
Isn't the whole thing a matter of technicalities anyway?
Manji said:
A decent amount of mystery sources that you won't post and that are undoubtedly vague and unreliable. Where I talk of NPD and official numbers I'm sure you'll be there with blog entries and third rate online magazines to prove me wrong!!
MGS2 didn't sell million copies more than a year after its release.
Focusing on what you said about the Japanese market, the thing is, I know the numbers, so I can tell you that MGS2's big sales during the first week didn't last, a really typical phenomenon in Japan. By itself it stopped short of the million. It means nothing to me personally, it's just how it is. I'd have been glad if it had sold 2 million. Substance on its starting week sold 59,600 units (Media Create numbers, the most reliable source in existence), then it was off the charts. Besides, not to nitpick but considering the context of our discussion (game boosting console sales on release), shouldn't we only take into account the original PS2 release to be really accurate? Not that it'd matter much given the other versions' sales, but I think you get my point. You know, I don't even really care about it, even if it had been 1.01 million it wouldn't change anything. I like the Metal Gear series. I'm just not going to invent numbers to please fanboys that think it's the most popular thing ever. So go ahead and believe what you want, but if you're going to try and correct me over stuff you obviously haven't looked into in detail, please be a little more circumspect.
Manji said:
Ah, so your statement had a point? Don't worry anyway, I didn't expect anything more of you than your usual reaction.
Manji said:
Right!
Manji said:
Nobody said it had sold 50 million. However, a quote from SCEE:
I don't think the PS3 will have sold 25 million units worldwide (or even over 20) by the time MGS4 comes out, although I would definitely be glad if it did. Currently, a realistic goal for it would be to reach 5 million for Christmas this year. I guess we can expect 6 million for MGS4's launch? Maybe 7-8 million if we're optimistic?
Manji said:
I see what you mean. It makes sense in a way, but I don't really agree with how you're explaining it. I could provide counter examples and such, but I think you shouldn't ignore the fact that this phenomenon is related to sequels in general and not just to the lack of titles on PS2 at the time. Besides, this line of thinking would account for the game selling more or less, but not for it boosting the hardware sales. It's people already owning the console that'd buy it while they wouldn't necessarily have, because of the lack of other interesting titles. Having few good titles isn't the best incentive for people to buy a console. In any case, the GTA series still sold more and more with each iteration (same with Halo), so my original point comparing it to the MGS series still stands.
Manji said:
Yeah, but see that's the problem here: nobody said it wouldn't cause a growth in PS3 sales. It's just not going to be a savior that'll send the PS3 to the top and sustain its sales for 9 months. It's all I was saying, and it's true. And since my point was that "it's not enough to catapult it into 10+ million units like the 360 and Wii" and that you replied with an apparent disagreement, yes I thought that was your idea. I'm honestly as uninterested as you (and perhaps more) in having a debate about sales numbers and whatnot, so we can agree on agreeing that MGS4 likely won't sell 6 million copies on the PS3 when the console itself has yet to sell 5 million. No doubt that it should provide the boost that nothing gave it so far though.
Now to be on topic, concerning HS, I honestly think IGN, Eurogamer and Edge (who gave the game a 6/10) are to be trusted over the other reviews that review as much for the hype than they do for the actual quality of the game. Not to mention that the PS3 needs a good title, so they're hard pressed to find one regardless of its defaults. Hell, the main French online video game magazine gave it a 5/10, but I suspect they were especially harsh. From the few people I know that have played the game so far, it's really no God of War and save for the pretty graphics there's nothing really mind blowing about it. It's a good game but Beat 'Em All fans probably won't be impressed by the gameplay. Of course grades from magazines only mean so much and there's a large part of subjectivity to the whole deal, so as long as people enjoy it, I guess it's really all that matters. I know I've had loads of fun with games rated 7/10.
OBJECTIONAazealh said:
Further will have to be PM debates Aazealh
obligatory not worthy wikis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metal_Gear_Solid_2:_Sons_of_Liberty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_video_games
More credible sources than the Wiki itself (only one stemming from the Wiki, if we doubt citations just to doubt them)
400,000+ claim...ok, the 60,000 in CE was my mistake.
http://www.ps2fantasy.com/news/200112/1007713332.php
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/adventure/metalgearsolid2sonsol/news.html?sid=2828165&mode=all
1.8 Million shipped/initial batch close to being reached
http://www.gamespot.com/ps2/adventure/metalgearsolid2sonsol/news.html?sid=2847978&mode=all
Preorders in Europe Already reach 1.57 Million
couple this with A)Japanese Sales of its first week, B)Assuming MGS2 sold 1.5 million by this point and C)European -preorders-, we are already close to the MGS3 sales figures in its whole -lifespan-, thus proving my point of the "pivotal release" and less of a defeating blow in the MGS franchise. To continue...
http://www.contactmusic.com/new/home.nsf/webpages/metalgearsolid3x21x05x03
http://www.gameplanet.co.nz/mag.dyn/Features/1751.html
Sources with the "7 million" listing.
At this point, your doubt in its sales aren't with me, but with the general consensus on its accurate figures. That's your own personal doubt, and I see no reason to quench it and don't see why you're so feverish in defending the "lower" figures (Again again, my apologies and promise to CnC this is the last off topic post). It's almost maddening that you want to persist so much that MGS2 couldn't have possibly sold 7 million games in its lifetime on the Playstation 2, yet have no problem accepting that games like San Andreas sold over 5 million its first -year-, being released in the -final quarter-, with the same amount of sources or "reliable" claims and less NPD accuracy, yet evidently it's an impossibility for you that MGS2 has sold "realistically" an extra "1.5-2.0" million than your Substance source lists -already- at the spring of 2003 as having sold over 5 million. It's perfectly feasible that the worldwide figure combines the PS2 figures of "Substance" for the Xbox and PS2 at worst, to reach that claim, and to say that its "impossible" since the spring of 2003 for MGS2 to sell an extra 2 million in 3 to 4 years, let alone to assume NPD articles that pop up -after- spring 03 still listing MGS2 (not substance) as a "best seller" in the monthly charts, not to mention sources still citing the original MGS as selling 6 million...
Yes, I fail to see the point in debating this further.
The rest just seems like a big jumble of misunderstanding my point. Let's throw Edgeworth a bone (YES THIS REMINDS ME OF SOMETHING) and not pull up any evidence, and claim your "5.5" million is the much more accurate source. It still proves my point entirely, MGS2 sold more, faster, and did so because of a pivotal point in the console's lifespan, with MGS3 coming at a later time in which a greater library across many consoles gave more choices. I agree that MGS4 isn't going to push the "4 million"+ (or perhaps, minus?
) of the PS3 into 7 or 8 million, that's insanity. However, it will cause a boost in sales for the PS3 (minor or maximum is not my point) and that MGS4 will sell substantially on the platform compared to other PS3 titles and on perhaps on par with the "Big hits" on other consoles.
Manji said:OBJECTION
Further will have to be PM debates Aazealh
Yeah I'm counting on you to drop it this time, and to make sure you do I'll just delete your posts after that.
Manji said:
Yeah, meaningless, sourceless data. You reuse the same stuff below too, how amusing. Maybe you shoud check http://www.vgchartz.com/ or something?
Manji said:
I told you I knew the numbers. These are correct, but they don't lend any credibility to your claims, on the contrary. Rather they tend to prove that the numbers I advanced are correct. Well, not like any proof is needed since I gave you official announcements from Sony and Konami but whatever.
Manji said:
What the hell are you talking about? Do you not understand what I have told you? The Japanese sales during the first week are always big for expected games, they go over a million for big Square Enix titles. Then it fall down to small numbers, and this is what happened with MGS2. I don't know what you're thinking, but you obviously haven't checked the actual sales numbers. I'm sorry but nothing of what you've posted is refuting my original statement, this is just a big waste of time. Do you need me to give you a week by week report or something? And it's the same for other countries too, the original shipment is always where the large majority of the sales are done. These numbers you provided and of which I was aware before this argument started do nothing to prove your assertion that the game sold over 7 million, or perhaps 10 million? 20?! Rather they hint at the 5+ million figure I gave you. The game sold 2+ million units in the USA, around a million in Japan and 2+ million in the rest of the world. If other big shipments had been made after that, we would have heard about them.
Manji said:
Hahaha, now you're just ridiculous. Third rate INDEED. What's the source of your "sources", exactly? Why not Gamespot this time? Or IGN? How about the official numbers I gave from Sony and Konami? Shouldn't they prevail over this bullshit? From the look of this and considering they appeared at the same time, it seems some videogame "journalist" tried to be smart and additioned 2 + 5 in this sentence: "MGS2 has sold over 2 million units in the United States, 5 million units worldwide" to come up with 7. Only it's 2 for the USA and 5 in total. If only they had known what confusion would result from it...
Because, don't you think it's funny that Konami and Sony would say 5 million when simultaneously, those numerous two subpar websites are announcing 7? Maybe they knew better than the developer and publisher of the game? Guess not.Manji said:
I don't have any doubt, I know what the sales number is and your ridiculous claims have been shown for what they are. Why not make your own website on which you can provide sourceless numbers and then call it a general consensus? I'd like to know. I disagree with the general consensus of contactmusic.com, WHOA MAN! Please be serious. I gave you 2 official quotes, one from SCEE, one from Konami of America. They're not hard to find or anything, and should have been enough, but you had to come back with this joke. Pretty sad.
Manji said:
I just stick to the correct figures. I have no idea why you're so feverish in defending your higher figures, trying to "correct" the good ones in the process. Nobody called for your expertise in this thread. You already recognized that you were wrong on some of what you said. Keep your dignity and just drop it now. Nobody's going to blame you for having checked Wikipedia and fallen for their erroneous data. It was probably the work of a fanboy that chose to ignore reliable, authoritative sources in the first place to concentrate on a random website giving off an incorrect information.
Manji said:
You're wrong, the sources aren't the same and you know it. Blatantly lying will not help you at this point. It's not that MGS2 couldn't have sold 7 million, it just didn't. I'm not telling you about possibilities, but about what happened. If you stop being so unreasonable you will surely see it.
Manji said:
Yeah, because games don't sell 2 million more copies so long after their release. That's just how it is. And in the very rare case when they do (see NDS games), manufacturers and developers heavily communicate on it and announce the numbers. And NPD and Media Create and Famitsu announce them too. It was around 5 million then, and it's around 5 million now. This is how video games sell with very little exception. By the way, I noticed something funny: your 2 sources that have the same copied/pasted news about the game having sold 7 million are also from the spring of 2003. So it'd mean that in any case no "extra 1.5-2.0 million" was sold. Now the question is just whether the official numbers from Sony and Konami are correct (the ones IGN, Gamespot and all the other reliable websites published), or whether it's those from contactmusic.com. What a dilemma.
Manji said:
Good, since you're wrong, have no real sources for your claims and are perfectly aware of it. You never had anything to prove what you said other than Wikipedia (itself sourceless) and now you're turning midly offensive out of desperation. The beauty of it is that you had no reason to post in the first place other than to blow hot air.
Manji said:I agree that MGS4 isn't going to push the "4 million"+ (or perhaps, minus?
Why are you even replying then? Just shut up and move on.