Regarding fandom...

[Neesha]

When people become fans of an anime (like Berserk) they often take the energy and inspiration they got from the show and transfer it into creative outlets, like fan-art, fan-fics, cosplay, BBS chats, analysises, etc.
I was debating with myself if all of this was a good thing or not.
I began thinking this: your feelings towards something like an anime or a song are malleable to a certain degree. For example, if you hear a song long enough eventually the passion you hear in it will fade. Another example is this: if you are a fan of an Gundam W you probably know that numerous fans write fanfics that depict the main characters as gay lovers. After seeing so many fanfics like that, its hard to look at your favorite G-Wing characters without being reminded of the fan-fics. One last example: I recently saw some figures for sale that depicted Asuka and Rei (from Evangelion) naked and in sexy positions. I didnt want to see these figures because I was afraid would tarnish my impressions of those characters.
Fan creations (and some merchandise) give your mind associations that you dont have when you first get into a particular anime series.
With all of this in mind, how should we treat anime fandom? Can it soil and deform our favorite shows? Also, does anyone else find that as more people surround a series (ie, as it becomes more popular) that your passion and/or appreciation of that series dissapates? Typically when an anime that I like starts to get popular, I feel threatened.
I'm not attacking anyone for their creative input into their favorite animes. I do those things just like most other fans. I am just bringing up this issue because its been bugging me.
WHat do you guys think?

 

[Griffith]

if you hear a song long enough eventually the passion you hear in it will fade

I understand what you mean. Sometimes I get too wrapped up in things like speculation and theories, I get fed up with it all.  But, then I take a step back, stop analyzing every little detail of the series and just appreciate Berserk for what it is and remember why I like to study it so much in the first place.  I rediscover it so to speak, though it sounds corny it does works, and continues to fortify my love of the series as well as re-energize my enthusiasm for speculation.

With all of this in mind, how should we treat anime fandom?  Can it soil and deform our favorite shows?

That’s another reason I think it’s important to take a step back sometimes.

-Griffith

 

[rapedcasca]

uh oh! we have a philosopher here.....priori or a priori......ask Imannuel Kant---wait he's dead.....DAMN!

A is A says John Locke
Socrates was a fly
Hume's fork is a load of marlarkeeeeeee

i wont respond to everything you had to say....but i will say this:
I think its perfectly natural (instinctual) to feel threatened by other people who move in on territory which defines you as a unique individual....it makes me kinda crazy when i see conventions grow every year at the P=ert rate....loads of tuna

 

[Fishbomb]

*ponders* I have never really been a part of any fandom before... mostly because I tend to like things that are unpopular...

As for changing perceptions of characters... sure that is a great risk. I mean... I am a Yaoi and Hentail lover, and I sure have read my share of Yaoi fics... but they have all been of Ronin Warrios, Weiss Kreuz, Gundam Wing and whatever... things I haven't even seen and if I have seen them, then I usually just blink after a single episone and wonders what the hell? They aren't even good! So for me it's the other way around there...

I was very hesitant to write a Berserk Fanfic, and only did so to experiment. I wouldn't have dreamt of writing about any of the main characters though... not even though I have my fantasies *grins*

 

[paradiselost]

...hey, fishbomb, I read your fanfic, and now I can tell you...it's a very good one, and interesting too...!!!

;)

 

[Fishbomb]

*grins* got two more story arcs... then I'm done with it. ;)

 

[floydboy]

At least we're not drooling at the feet of N*SYNC.  

I totally agree with the ideas that Griffith brought up.  Sometimes becoming so intigued or involved in a topic can be dangerous to one's health, mentally and physically.  Yes Berserk is the best anime/manga out there, but there is a whole lot more to life than just a crazy story about a sword-swinging maniac (though I may contradict myself sometimes on that statement).  I just think that someone shouldn't spend innane amounts of time on something that may result in losing another aspect of his/her life.  Don't delve into this realm and proceed to drop out of school or stop showing up for work.  Remove the fandom item and take a look at life and see where you stand.  Then you can go back to the fandom and see that it is enjoyable and that life isn't wasting away (I mean that literally).

If Berserk can bring out talents that someone may posses, more power to 'em.  Let the world see what that person has to offer.

If the entire world starts to like the series or what not, try to remember why it was so unique in the first place and go from there.  I still remember the first time I saw the end of the anime (which got me into the manga and such) and the feeling of bewilderment that followed.  That feeling remains unique to me.  

Sorry about the ranting, but those are just a few ideas i had.  Too many psychology courses lol.  Rereading what i wrote, seems to preachy especially coming from a pessimist at heart, but hey Berserk does crazy things to ya'.

 

[Neesha]

I think its perfectly natural (instinctual) to feel threatened by other people who move in on territory which defines you as a unique individual....

I wonder if everyone feels threatened when an anime they like becomes popular? That is, I wonder if that threatened feeling is something instinctual and inside of everyone, OR...

What if it depends on your perception of humanity as a whole?--- Like, if you dont like humanity as a whole then you'll feel threatened when a group of humanity likes the same anime because it means that there are things in that anime that both you and them (that portion of humanity) are drawn to. If you dont like people/humanity, you'll want to be unique, that is, different from everyone else. If part of the uniqueness is in the form of an particular anime, you'll feel threatened when it becomes popular. And if this latter theory is true, then if you liked humanity/people, you wouldn't need a sense of uniqueness and you wouldnt feel threatened when the anime you liked became popular.

A third theory could incorporate parts of the 2 above. I think, if anything, that would be closest to the truth.

Thoughts?

 

[paradiselost]

..I totally agree Neesha...!

...if you like an anime or a manga so much as, for instance, I love Berserk, well, it's impossible that you could not be happy in case that manga should be read by so many people...it can't be possible to loose that feeling of uniquity...

;)

 

[Fishbomb]

What if it depends on your perception of humanity as a whole?---  Like, if you dont like humanity as a whole then you'll feel threatened when a group of humanity likes the same anime because it means that there are things in that anime that both you and them (that portion of humanity) are drawn to.  If you dont like people/humanity, you'll want to be unique, that is, different from everyone else.  

Yes! That is me... the moment anything I like gets popular... AAARRRGGGH! I am so glad that all this army boots/ black leather phase is almost gone. Now I just have to wait for tatoos to become unpopular again...

With media though... then I don't have to confront the people on a daily basis, so that's better. I just ignore all the nuts out there.... >:(

And before someone gets hurt and categorises himself as a nnut... I come here a lot, don't I ;)

 

[eintrigga]

Like, if you dont like humanity as a whole then you'll feel threatened when a group of humanity likes the same anime because it means that there are things in that anime that both you and them (that portion of humanity) are drawn to.  If you dont like people/humanity, you'll want to be unique, that is, different from everyone else

OH MY DEAR GOD! WHY DIDN'T I THINK ABOUT THAT! *starts grabing hair and panic* ;D

MAYBE because people (not a person) are STUPID?

look at rap, before it was pouplar it was about life in the slums and dangers of drug abuse --once it got "popular" therefore it mixes with the popoular culture: sex, violence,degrading women, and other unsavory topics

 

[paradiselost]

...in these people are you talking about we are the same me and you??

???

 

[eintrigga]

...in these people are you talking about we are the same me and you??

???

sure why not, provided that we're talking about people or a community. i.e. (don't flame me) the berserk board community

but i am not speaking of any individuals (i.e. you and me), nor do i have any intention of refering to any

 

[rapedcasca]

About your question regarding discontinuity in space at the Plank scale (10^-33), gravity as a result of mass-energy's curvature in 3-D space time and their relation to"gravitons", and reverse time causality....

A mathematical space is continuous if it has a metric that withstands infinitesimal subdivision. Simply put, a metric is just a general "distance" relationship defined on a space as follows: if a and b are two points in a space, and c is a third point, then the distance between a and b is always less than or equal to the sum of the distances between a and c, and b and c. That is, where d(x,y) is the distance between two points x and y,

d(a,b) <= d(a,c) + d(b,c). 

If this relationship continues to hold no matter how close together the points a, b and c might be, then the space is continuous. On the other hand, where the distance concept is undefined below a certain threshold, metric continuity breaks down on that scale. Since the Planck limit is such a threshold, space is discontinuous below the Planck scale...implying, that it is discontinuous. Not only is it "granular" in a slippery kind of way, but the grains in question are without spatial extent. 

Because space and time are undefined below quantum limits, they no longer have extensionality or directionality. But if we interpret this to mean that anything, including causality, can "flow" in any direction whatsoever, then reverse causality is conceivable on sub-Planck scales..... In fact, some theorists argue that on these scales, continuous spacetime becomes a chaotic "quantum foam" in which distant parts of the universe are randomly connected by .....microscopic "wormholes".....

Now let's bring philosophy in the bowl of cereal. At one time, space was considered to consist of "ether", a quasimaterial "substance" which physical objects were thought to swim through like fishies in water. But since the introduction of Einstein's Theory of Relativity, nothing material remains of empty space; although it is permeated by fields and "vacuum energy", these are merely contained by space and are not equivalent to space itself. Space has instead become a mathematical abstraction called a "tensor field" that confers relative attributes like location, direction, orientation, distance, etc. on physical objects and energy fields. Because empty space, as abstracted from its contents, cannot be observed and has no observable effect on anything, it is not "physical" in the usual sense. That which is immaterial is abstract, and abstraction is a mental process that "abstracts" or educes relationships from observations. ......So from a philosophical view, saying that space is immaterial and therefore abstract amounts to saying that it is "mental"...that it is to some extent composed of mind rather than matter. Although this runs against the scientific grain, it is consistent with our dominant physical theories of the very large and the very small, namely relativity and quantum mechanics. In relativity, space and time are combined in an abstract manifold called "spacetime" whose "points" are physical events that can be resolved in terms of mutual behavioral transduction of material objects, a process fundamentally similar to mentation. And quantum mechanics describes matter in terms of abstract, immaterial wave functions that are physically actualized by interactions of an equally immaterial nature...so, what the Hell does this mean regarding spacetime? Simply that like spacetime itself, continuity and its quantum-scale breakdown are mental rather than material in character. As Berkeley (the bald mathematician/philo) observed centuries ago, reality is ultimately perceptual, and as we know from the following debate between Hume and Kant, perception conforms to mental categories... categories like space and time. So rather than being purely objective and "physical" in a materialistic sense, space has a subjective aspect reflecting the profoundly mental nature of our REality...

Gravitons, and sandwiches though subject to some of the same reasoning, are another matter...

 

[eintrigga]

, reality is ultimately perceptual, and as we know from the following debate between Hume and Kant, perception conforms to mental categories... categories like space and time.

Hume was a corpulent glut who secretly prayed to god when he was sinking from a quicksand due to his more than humble weight ;D

and yes, to deny the spoon is to deny our existence

 

[paradiselost]

...hey, rapedcaska, you seems to be really good in mathematics...

...it's true?

...this sounds to me really interesting...

;)