Episode 375

[Aazealh]

It's still kinda extreme to suggest that this continuation is "nothing like what" Miura would have done. It's a given that this will have significant differences from what Miura would have done

It's not extreme at all, it's a factual assessment of the situation. You can use euphemisms all you want ("significant differences"), it doesn't change the facts. These developments contradict a ton of things Miura had established for the story, which I've documented for others' benefit. And that's not getting into matters of common sense – like the fact the characters would not behave like they do – that I don't expect you to grasp. The result is something that's very, very different from what Miura would have done.

Anyway, I'll tell you the same thing I just told Neblin: if you disagree with something, explain why in detail. Not just by saying we should have blind faith in Mori.

I just take some key plot points as a spark of imagination as to how Miura would have done it and don't take the rest very seriously.

This is still the right mindset to have as far as I'm concerned. The problem is that distinguishing these key plot points from the chaff is proving to be harder than I had anticipated. I still really wish Mori would publish a list of the elements he learned from Miura, without embellishments.

 

[Vitris]

I still really wish Mori would publish a list of the elements he learned from Miura, without embellishments.

I keep thinking about this, but at his point I don't know if he'll ever do it. I mean, if he did, most Berserk fans would probably ignore the continuation in the future, whether it will be finished at that point or not, and I don't think that's what Mori and Studio Gaga want to happen.

 

[Goat]

I keep thinking about this, but at his point I don't know if he'll ever do it. I mean, if he did, most Berserk fans would probably ignore the continuation in the future, whether it will be finished at that point or not, and I don't think that's what Mori and Studio Gaga want to happen.

It's pretty much guaranteed that at this point there are commercial agreements that prevent this from happening.

Which also throws some shadows on the length of the continuation, but I think this would be offtopic and too mild to discuss.

 

[Vitris]

It's pretty much guaranteed that at this point there are commercial agreements that prevent this from happening.

I think that Mori made this impossible to happen the moment he chose to continue the manga. Sure, there might be some legal agreements now, but he already made up his mind about it, and I doubt that he would back down, especially after what he said in those interviews.

 

[Griffith]

I don't really understand this vague pushback for the continuation (I actually find it a little endearing; like, I get it, you want Berserk to be ok =). It is what it is though, and it's clearly not the same Berserk or even consistent with it, even if one were only extrapolating from what already exists of Miura's work, which is all Aaz is pointing out.

You don't need inside information to see that, and Mori and the team having inside info doesn't mean they're also going to rigorously adhere to all that came before, which they're unequivocally, factually not doing, which is what frustrates someone like Aaz because now we don't know what to believe of this is straight from Miura. You either have to not care or overlook it, which is fine for now, we can parse it all later and forever here, but lets not pretend, "How do YOU know Miura didn't tell Mori he was gonna start contradicting his meticulously established story all the time in the last third of it!?"

It's fine if it's messed up, it's going to be by the nature of these circumstances, we just need to get what we can out of it and that means recognizing and cutting through what doesn't even add up. This episode alone has so many grand plot shortcuts that it's kind of a perfect example of how some facts, like these characters logically coming together, can feel completely thrown together in a way that doesn't make sense because Miura probably didn't lay out to anyone all the subtle wrinkles and layers leading to it, because he hadn't even written it out himself yet. That's just part of the inherent limits of this endeavor.

 

[Benjomania]

In this episode for me it is like the first time that the characters are not themselves. It's hard to see Guts get humiliated like this and the reaction from Rickert and Puck seems so off.
I just finished my first read of the series and going from Miura over to Mori it is a big difference.
Like a lot said it already but the task for Mori to continue this work must be a lot of pressure.

Sorry for the bad English.

 

[Domeniko]

Hello guys, I am back. I'd like to add to this discussion by saying, first off, I agree with Aazealh that this continuation has numerous faults with it and that it gets unnecessarily convoluted. However I personally started understanding Studio Gaga. I started reflecting back on the numerous faults Miura had, the growth in his art, the older releases having some art redone, the subtle mistakes, the things that were added and weren't planned for, the digital shift that was quite rough in the beginning. I started to think a lot about Miura's and Studio Gaga's history, how he was teaching them the artistry and their future plans. So it got me feeling kinda warm, kinda welcoming, it made me feel positive about the whole thing. Now I care little for the faults, I care about the hard work these people are putting in it. I'm not an artist, I can copy things fine but I've never had the drive to improve my craftmanship, as such I recognize the people that DO have that drive, that love for this medium. So not only did I get invested now in Kentaro Miura's other works(Duranki, King of wolves, Giganto Machia etc) I have immense respect for this group of people that was built up by Miura, I also saw that they put Miura's the amazones into the extras of Duranki volume as a bonus.

I ordered Volume 42 of Berserk a couple days ago. I want to see their work in original quality not over online scans. I want to compare it to Miura's, not to determine whether they got it right or so I can talk smack about them, but because I appreciate this medium so much and I appreciate Studio Gaga. I want to enjoy their art, built up by Miura, encouraged by Miura, it makes me feel very happy.

I'm not saying don't criticize it, I'm just proposing an alternative positive warm and fuzzy outlook on these people and their work of art, Berserk grew, Miura grew, people should grow. I guess what I'm trying to hint at throughout my post is that I love Berserk to death

 

[Vitris]

I'm not saying don't criticize it, I'm just proposing an alternative positive warm and fuzzy outlook on these people and their work of art, Berserk grew, Miura grew, people should grow.

This is just a really superficial way of looking at a project that fails in everything else that's not the art. This is not about "people growing" (whatever you mean by this), it's about the fact that this product has little to no qualities besides the art. Ignoring or downplaying everything else just highlights the fact that the people at Studio Gaga are not good storytellers and that they shouldn't have embarked in this endeavour.

I guess what I'm trying to hint at throughout my post is that I love Berserk to death

From your post it seemes like you love Miura's art more than Berserk itself, which is understandable, but it's not the only thing we care about. If I wanted to see Miura's art, I could just pick up any volume and read it, I don't need to see seven assistants trying to emulate his style for what is an overall inferior product.

 

[TheItCrOw]

Hello guys, I am back. I'd like to add to this discussion by saying, first off, I agree with @Aazealh that this continuation has numerous faults with it and that it gets unnecessarily convoluted. However I personally started understanding Studio Gaga. I started reflecting back on the numerous faults Miura had, the growth in his art, the older releases having some art redone, the subtle mistakes, the things that were added and weren't planned for, the digital shift that was quite rough in the beginning. I started to think a lot about Miura's and Studio Gaga's history, how he was teaching them the artistry and their future plans. So it got me feeling kinda warm, kinda welcoming, it made me feel positive about the whole thing. Now I care little for the faults, I care about the hard work these people are putting in it. I'm not an artist, I can copy things fine but I've never had the drive to improve my craftmanship, as such I recognize the people that DO have that drive, that love for this medium. So not only did I get invested now in Kentaro Miura's other works(Duranki, King of wolves, Giganto Machia etc) I have immense respect for this group of people that was built up by Miura, I also saw that they put Miura's the amazones into the extras of Duranki volume as a bonus.

I ordered Volume 42 of Berserk a couple days ago. I want to see their work in original quality not over online scans. I want to compare it to Miura's, not to determine whether they got it right or so I can talk smack about them, but because I appreciate this medium so much and I appreciate Studio Gaga. I want to enjoy their art, built up by Miura, encouraged by Miura, it makes me feel very happy.

I'm not saying don't criticize it, I'm just proposing an alternative positive warm and fuzzy outlook on these people and their work of art, Berserk grew, Miura grew, people should grow. I guess what I'm trying to hint at throughout my post is that I love Berserk to death

You quarrel over the one thing that no one in this forum has ever truly ripped apart: the artwork. The artwork is, in my opinion, the only consistently somewhat appropriate adaptation of Berserk, and aside from some rare comments like "this looks scetchy" and "characters look different on some shots", noone in this forum has truly denied that - at least to my knowledge.

Now, I don't mind if someone disagrees with anything. But the underlying tone of your post - that critics are "talking smack" - and your final sentence - which may suggest that, if you truly loved Berserk, you would just enjoy it no matter what - are what bothers me. I won't enjoy Rings of Power simply because someone slapped J.R.R. Tolkien on the wallpaper and I won't enjoy the Berserk continuation because it says Berserk on the cover. It takes more than name dropping and nostalgia for me to like something.

 

[Keratos]

I'm not saying don't criticize it, I'm just proposing an alternative positive warm and fuzzy outlook on these people and their work of art, Berserk grew, Miura grew, people should grow. I guess what I'm trying to hint at throughout my post is that I love Berserk to death

I feel like I would've looked at their work with a more positive mindset only if it wasn't BERSERK they were working on. If for example after Berserk they decided to either continue Duranki or start another manga, I'd gladly sit back and watch them grow as mangaka, progressively finding their footing after each release. But you're clearly missing what people are even complaining about and even proposing a blindly positive look towards the entire thing.

As others have said, the artwork isn't even what most people are criticizing about the continuation. If the artwork was the only thing wrong with the continuation, trust me it wouldn't even be mentioning it, cause of course they wouldn't be able to draw like Miura did.

 

[ApostleBob]

As others have said, the artwork isn't even what most people are criticizing about the continuation. If the artwork was the only thing wrong with the continuation, trust me it wouldn't even be mentioning it, cause of course they wouldn't be able to draw like Miura did.

This sums it up. I can quibble about paneling and continuity in the new art, but they've done admirably considering who they are following. The main issue is the story and the dialogue. It might be the broad strokes of what Miura intended, but the specifics aren't well thought out or consistent with what's been established.

And the new continuation has little self-awareness of pace, or what to focus on. The huge moment of the destruction of the island and all the inhabitants is over super fast, with many questions lingering, and yet we focus on things we already know for episode-after-episode, like Guts crying about his sword, or discovering where Casca is. The issue isn't the art, it's the care given to the story and characters.

 

[Domeniko]

okay let me clarify my entire post. I first acknowledge the faults, then I shift, I go on another topic, which is to say I am not implying that the faults are just artistic in nature. That's just what I focused on regarding my view and why I love these people, it is not implying these things, all these replies have misunderstood me. I know the story has gotten convoluted, that they've downgraded the characters, that the world no longer makes sense. I know all these things. I'm not mindlessly consuming the new content. I am just enjoying it for different things, thats all

 

[Irvine]

That was...disappointing.

I expected Guts to regain his senses and go Berserk on the Kushans but he is still depressed because of sword dysfunction. He didn't even attempt to use his fists to fight. This is NOT Guts anymore. If Griffith had paralyzed him in some way it would make more sense but not this sword depression garbage.

Then there is also Pucks weird reaction. He looks so calm that for me it looks like he is planning something? Either that or it's just another case of bad writing.

But the chained Dragonslayer isn't odd to me because it shows that the Kushans are scared of it and rightfully so.

And the art was nice.

 

[Walter]

But the chained Dragonslayer isn't odd to me because it shows that the Kushans are scared of it and rightfully so.

Does wrapping it in chains make it less deadly to someone like Guts? It's not like a moving object or something.

While we're on the subject though--why did they put chains on the Sea Horse? Why not just... anchor it and put a few guys on to guard it? My only feasible answer: this is the Kushan Chain Clan. Putting chains on things is a form of expression for them.

 

[Xenoskell]

Guts' condition doesn't make sense

By the way, Guts' affliction doesn't make a lot of sense. He's having trouble walking and essentially falls unconscious after a little bit of effort (he actually looks like he's sleeping peacefully at the end

). I guess it's supposed to be some sort of depression, but it's more like a neuromotor disorder. Depression is not having the drive to get out of bed in the morning; here he can barely stay awake at all and is unable to stand on his own two feet.

If anything, this kind of ailment feels like the extreme end of the debilitating effects related to continuous use of the berserk's armor. The problem is Guts wasn't anywhere close to that level. In episode 364, literally the last one penned by Miura, we saw Guts losing hold of his sword without the armor, underlining that he couldn't quite fight without it at the time. But here he is using the armor and yet can't move his own body. This just doesn't make sense and directly contradicts established facts of the story, like... the very way the armor works.

The armor is always dulling his senses while being ready to fire him up at the tiniest sign of aggressivity. When you think about it, it's pretty much the perfect implement to counteract the feelings of a depressed warrior. Moreover, if Guts was "broken" mentally by his ineptitude against Griffith, the Beast of Darkness should have been broken as well. However it's repeatedly shown as triumphant or threatening. So, long story short, his condition doesn't make any sense. I don't expect any particular explanation for it in the future, I assume it'll go away as quickly and inexplicably as it came to be.

Just to share my thoughts : I do think it makes sense but it was explained poorly.

Severe depression can actually cause physical limitations, including almost near paralysis, which is called "Psychomotor Retardation" (see Wikipedia page just to get a glimpse of it).
I actually suffered (because I have depression) in a similar way in the past : cried like a baby, had to take medication to sleep, I couldn't talk appropiately, could barely walk (I had to receive help from others) and didn't even had the desire to eat.
Took me long enough to recover from this status, it was very hard in the beginning, but I'm happy to say that I'm much better now.

Talking about the manga again though, they haven't tackled Guts emotions in a convicing way, his inner dialogues and his memories (how the hell he forgot Casca?) weren't properly adressed, so it ends up feeling a bit nonsense.
But I think the consequence itself makes sense, because he has trauma and (I assume) major depression (caused by his harsh background and specially the Eclipse).
And, in the recent episodes :

• he has seen Casca's mind being recovered, only to discover that she couldn't even hear his voice without have a panic attack
• after that he loses Casca for the person he despises the most
• is completely powerless against Griffith
• he probably noticed that his son shares the same body as Griffith

To summarize, I think his condition is by far the worst he had since the Eclipse, and it makes sense to feeling that depressed, because at that time he at least Casca was being protected by someone, but now he lost her to a God Hand member so his chance to rescue Casca is very slim.

 

[Aazealh]

Severe depression can actually cause physical limitations, including almost near paralysis, which is called "Psychomotor Retardation" (see Wikipedia page just to get a glimpse of it).
I actually suffered (because I have depression) in a similar way in the past : cried like a baby, had to take medication to sleep, I couldn't talk appropiately, could barely walk (I had to receive help from others) and didn't even had the desire to eat.
Took me long enough to recover from this status, it was very hard in the beginning, but I'm happy to say that I'm much better now.

Oh wow, that's good to know. I wasn't aware it could lead to people not being physically able to stand up by themselves. And I'm glad you got better! That sounds horrible.

Talking about the manga again though, they haven't tackled Guts emotions in a convicing way, his inner dialogues and his memories (how the hell he forgot Casca?) weren't properly adressed, so it ends up feeling a bit nonsense.
But I think the consequence itself makes sense, because he has trauma and (I assume) major depression (caused by his harsh background and specially the Eclipse).

He was traumatized by the Eclipse but has never been shown to have depression in the manga. His trauma took other forms... like the Beast of Darkness. Which is shown to be thriving here. And given that the Beast represents his combativeness and self-destructive desire for revenge (among other things), his condition simply does not make sense. The two directly contradict each other.

To summarize, I think his condition is by far the worst he had since the Eclipse, and it makes sense to feeling that depressed, because at that time he at least Casca was being protected by someone, but now he lost her to a God Hand member so his chance to rescue Casca is very slim.

But he's not depressed about Casca. He hasn't spared her a thought. He has rather been preoccupied by the fact he couldn't hit Griffith with his sword, which is depicted as being completely incomprehensible to him. They've deliberately focused on that and nothing else. As you know, I find this development to be nonsensical and very much unlike him.

 

[Walter]

I think his condition is by far the worst he had since the Eclipse, and it makes sense to feeling that depressed, because at that time he at least Casca was being protected by someone, but now he lost her to a God Hand member so his chance to rescue Casca is very slim.

I'm sorry you had to go through that, man. But the problem I've had with Guts' state is that we're talking about Guts, not just anyone. He's the struggler, right?

This hardly feels like Guts anymore. They've altered a core principle of his character. And given what happened, it feels unwarranted and exaggerated. His reaction isn't consistent with his recovery after the eclipse, an event that was far more traumatizing. On the island, Griffith dodged Guts' swings and then flew off with Casca. That's brutal for a warrior like Guts. But it's nothing compared to what he endured with the eclipse, and within a few episodes, he was declaring war.

If events on the island went down like this (which isn't guaranteed) it would have been natural for Guts to feel tremendous defeat. He likely would have been distraught, broken, and directionless before he seized on a glimmer of hope. And he'd struggle to victory, as always. But this Jell-o like state they've induced feels incredibly over-the-top, and it needs better grounding and explanation, which isn't being offered.

 

[Xenoskell]

Oh wow, that's good to know. I wasn't aware it could lead to people not being physically able to stand up by themselves. And I'm glad you got better! That sounds horrible.



He was traumatized by the Eclipse but has never been shown to have depression in the manga. His trauma took other forms... like the Beast of Darkness. Which is shown to be thriving here. And given that the Beast represents his combativeness and self-destructive desire for revenge (among other things), his condition simply does not make sense. The two directly contradict each other.



But he's not depressed about Casca. He hasn't spared her a thought. He has rather been preoccupied by the fact he couldn't hit Griffith with his sword, which is depicted as being completely incomprehensible to him. They've deliberately focused on that and nothing else. As you know, I find this development to be nonsensical and very much unlike him.

I think what I expected from the story is different from what we received.
I really wanted the story to develop this part better, showing Guts remembering about Casca and pondering more about his whole life, before he got in that state.

By the way, you are right that probably he doesn't actually have depression, but I do think he has developed enough suffering in his life that he could be experiencing some of its symptoms, which, in real life at least, is common in people who suffered some kind of trauma (such as PTSD).

I'm sorry you had to go through that, man. But the problem I've had with Guts' state is that we're talking about Guts, not just anyone. He's the struggler, right?

This hardly feels like Guts anymore. They've altered a core principle of his character. And given what happened, it feels unwarranted and exaggerated. His reaction isn't consistent with his recovery after the eclipse, an event that was far more traumatizing. On the island, Griffith dodged Guts' swings and then flew off with Casca. That's brutal for a warrior like Guts. But it's nothing compared to what he endured with the eclipse, and within a few episodes, he was declaring war.

If events on the island went down like this (which isn't guaranteed) it would have been natural for Guts to feel tremendous defeat. He likely would have been distraught, broken, and directionless before he seized on a glimmer of hope. And he'd struggle to victory, as always. But this Jell-o like state they've induced feels incredibly over-the-top, and it needs better grounding and explanation, which isn't being offered.

You are right.
Though I do think it would make sense to having him in the state, but maybe they're going too far?
Like, I understand if he was like that just in a episode, but not 2, 3, or more.

I just hope that they don't extend this even more, though I don't have high expectations about this continuation anymore.

 

[Aazealh]

I think what I expected from the story is different from what we received.
I really wanted the story to develop this part better, showing Guts remembering about Casca and pondering more about his whole life, before he got in that state.

Well I don't want to drag this discussion out but if you look at Guts' character over the course of the series and then at how Miura had set things up even until just before he passed away, it's abundantly clear to me that he did not intend for him to end up in such a state to begin with. There are many other ways "Guts having a huge crisis" could have been depicted, and I believe Mori and team chose one that is fundamentally inappropriate.

 

[Vitris]

Though I do think it would make sense to having him in the state, but maybe they're going too far?

It would've made more sense to me if Guts finally understood that the boy is his son and that he shares his body with Griffith. Maybe Miura meant for Casca to say something about it shortly after episode 364, even something as simple as "My son...", before fainting.
And then, Guts would've had to understand what actually happened, probably with the help of SK, and that is when he would've decided what to make of his rage. To quote Gedflynn: "That's why I say you should decide what you want your anger to be, a breath that is blown into your body or karma fire that burns you off. Determine what the moment of your death will be like."

 

[Domeniko]

Why does Studio Gaga keep coloring the berserker armor blue? It's blue in the vol 42 cover and the recent colored cover pages for the new episodes

is he going to become the blue swordsman???

youd think the inside of vol 42 pullout poster would have him wear blue berserker armor too but no that one is black what gives?? at least be consistent in your changes ??

 

[Xenoskell]

Why does Studio Gaga keep coloring the berserker armor blue? It's blue in the vol 42 cover and the recent colored cover pages for the new episodes

is he going to become the blue swordsman???

youd think the inside of vol 42 pullout poster would have him wear blue berserker armor too but no that one is black what gives?? at least be consistent in your changes ??

Saturated colors are more vibrant, so they attract more attention to the viewer (this is very a common way to introduce a focal point in a piece of artwork).
But yeah, the colors are very off, originally the Berserker Armor is just slightly blue (low saturation), while in the recent cover they are using an extremely saturated blue, not to mention the other colors as well.

 

[Griffith]

I don't mind the brighter colors from 41 to 42 because if nothing else it helps indicate the change in management. It kind of makes me appreciate that they kept it more subdued on 41 actually, but I don't know why they didn't just use a vintage Miura piece. An acceptable explanation is that he had already planned/designed the cover but hadn't finished it so they did, much like the final episode of the volume, and now the series to continually diminishing returns. In such a case, and frankly in all the above cases, I'd love to see the original drafts.

 

[Todd Liu]

Studio gaga's "homage" to Dragon Ball in the scene in episode 375 where Puck sits on Guts and holds his right leg with both hands.It's called a tribute, but it actually tarnishes the work of Dragon Ball.

 

[Walter]

Studio gaga's "homage" to Dragon Ball in the scene in episode 375 where Puck sits on Guts and holds his right leg with both hands.It's called a tribute, but it actually tarnishes the work of Dragon Ball.

Not so sure about that… If so, it’s incredibly oblique. It could just as easily be a pose devoid of any meaning.