Terrorists, gedonaddaheayah

...right Walter, but those forces are the ones of General Massud, "the Lion of Panshir"...

...someone say that he is actually dead, but it's still not sure...

...however, he is allied with us actually...

;)
 
In Rome there is currently a big demonstration of support to the people of United States. I know this is little comfort, but it's one of the few good news in these days.

Most likely, the President Bush will take his revenge in the next future. I can understand the reasons, but I really hope there will be no other bombings in the middle east.

P.S. : I have just read about a russian hacker who hacked the official Taleban website ridiculising Bin Laden. Well, another small good new...
 
to say that violence doesn't solve violence isn't completely true. if someone commits a violent act, and you KILL THEM, then they will never commit that act ever again! look at history... pearl harbor for example. We were caught off guard(just like 9-11-01) and we were hit hard (just like 9-11-01). what did we do to the japanese because of pearl harbor?? thats right, we bombed them until they pretty much gave up(plus everyone declared war on them). have we had a problem with japan since? nope.

If you eliminate the threat, then the violence will stop. i believe that in this case, violence is the only answer... i'm sure NO amount of talking will convince the ones responsible for tuesday's actions to turn themselves in peacefully.  If we do not strike back, then we will prove to the terrorists that we are weak and that they are in the right for wanting to destroy us(crazy religious people will always believe that good prevails over evil and that their god will not let them lose). we are dealing with madmen, that is for certain and we must deal with them as quickly as possible.

don't get me wrong, i'm not saying that we should bomb an entire country, i'm just saying that we definately need to destroy the ones who threaten our lives.

and a news update, fbi are fairly certain the crashes were caused by bin laden. they have found video tapes and books that show instructions on how to fly the planes(in arabic) and i've also heard that 4 arabic men were arrested in boston(for fighting over a parking space, haha) and they also possessed the books and videos.

anyways, that was my 2 cents and an update for those of you who aren't near a tv or radio.
 
They arent assuming its Bin Laden because the textbooks are in arabic...they are assuming it because they have documentation found within those cars that Bin Laden was involved. Just because it has arabic writing doesnt mean its necessarily Bin Laden, thats a harsh assumption. But essentially you are correct.

However, I feel it is innaccurate to compare this, a war on terrorism against Pearl Harbor. This is completely different. Even if we do narrow down which country is harboring Bin Laden, they will go into negotiations for a month or so (refer back to early desert storm: "give us saddam..." "no, we dont have him.") and even once (or if) we bomb "them", the entire world will be split right down the middle: "you are being too harsh america..." and "america is #1!".

This is a war that CANNOT be solved with bombs. In my opinion it can only be solved through America losing some face and giving up some of their international affairs. More specifically, giving up Israel and letting the Arab nations fight over it some more.

Once again, these are MY thoughts
 
I see your point, Tenshin, but I don't agree.
Let assume Bin Laden is the responsible : we have to kill him, but also his followers (otherwise they will try to revenge). Then other people will hate us for those deaths...
(maybe a similar reason moved these terrorists)
Unfortunatly, it's not so easy to eradicate the evil.

Look at United States : they are the biggest military force of the whole history, they beated the nazists in WW2, they forced the soviet union to give up, they rule the world with their economy : still, they are so vulnerable. Yesterday, for me, it was the most astonishing day since the Gulf War.
 
This is a war that CANNOT be solved with bombs. In my opinion it can only be solved through America losing some face and giving up some of their international affairs. More specifically, giving up Israel and letting the Arab nations fight over it some more.
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Hee...it's a big temptation to leave these folish solve their problems alone. Anyway I think today's world is too small for this kind of politic. Please consider also there are a lot of Arabians and Jewish in the States, concerned about their countries....

The problem should be solved by all the countries. The United Nations will be of some use, I hope. Up to now, their authority has been near to zero. Maybe yesterday's disaster will be a starting point to change. Maybe.
 
well, judging by the number of countries that have already shown their support for the US (even cuba) i don't think many countries will stand in the way if the govt does decide to bomb the countries that may be hiding bin laden. don't forget, lots of countries had people in the twin tower at the time of the airplane crashes, not just america was attacked at that time. i'm sure lots of countries want revenge.

but like i said before, i am not advocating the bombing of innocent people.

I've read lots of posts(not only on this msg board) from people saying that americans should just try to forget what happend and keep living our lives, i personally find that disgusting. I live about 40 minutes from DC, i also have friends and family that work in DC and I don't see how we can be expected to ignore what happened just because the crimes were most likely commited by persons from another country with insane religious beliefs. those responsible must be punished, how can we live peacefully with the on-going threat of madmen dropping a plane on your house just because they think god wants them to do it.

also, if we do kill bin laden(assuming he is responsible) then the only people who will hate us will be the people who already hate us, haha, and they are probably the ones responsible for the attacks.

The actions of the terrorist factions remind me of cults. they will follow their leader to their death, that is unless their leader dies first. besides, bin laden is not the only person responsible, he did not organize the entire plan himself and i'm sure he did not personally crash all 4 planes. Everyone in his faction(again, assuming it was them) is responsible and should be punished.

as for the pearl harbor / terrorist thing, if i remember correctly, pearl harbor happened before the japanese declared war on the US(i could be mistaken, i used to sleep in history class, hehe). so i think pearl harbor was a lot like a terrorist attack because it was done by a country that we were not at war with. Also, bush has "declared war" on the terrorists who are responsible, the only thing left is finding out exactly who did it and then finding out where they are(easier said than done, i know).

anyways, just my opinions. sorry for the long posts, hehe.
 
There are 4 times as many non-Jews in Israel.
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Sorry, I'm not sure to understand your reply.

I mean : there is a lot of people in States and Europe coming from these countries. Of course, they care about their original countries (in Italy, for example, the Jewish community is firmly bound to Israel, even if they live in Italy since generations). I don't think they will accept to forget them.
 
Well of cource they wont forget about them. Im just being a rational bastard ;D It is a harsh thing to say "Well there are 4 times as many non-jews so lets just abandon them." but when push comes to shove as it did yesterday...You have to make some sacrifices.

Then again, I dont think my mind was ever cut out for politics. Id be such a bastard tyrant. Thats just how I see things a lot of the time. Cold and Harsh realities.
 
America's not gonna pull out of Israel after this. This is just gonna make the government hold on tighter to Israel. To release Israel at this point would make America lose more face than it wants to.

ok those are just my opinions and I'm not gonna start an Israel/Palestine argument now.

As for the comparisons to Pearl Harbor, there are differences. We prob. lost a lot more people today than we did in P.H. These people were all innocent civilians. And in P.H there was a clear return address of the attackers. Here, we don't truly know (yet) who our enemy is. And once we do, well, who knows. Its a group behind this (as far as we know), not a country.

If the U.S went to war, it would prob. be against the countries harboring these terrorists.

damn I'm bored... gonna go back to recoloring... later
 
See thats the problem, America can "never" lose face. The correct and long lasting way to solve this problem would be for America to take it up the ass this one time, and avoid further escalations.

But since apparently no one understands the terrifying reality of a potential War on Terrorism, I guess we will ALL have to 'take it up the ass' in the form of chemical warfare splashing in the streets of suburbs and crowded streets.

Yay!!
 
the 'reality' we face is that if we don't do something about terrorism, then the attacks won't end.

if we 'take it up the ass' now, then they will keep attacking us knowing that we will do nothing in return because we fear what other countries might think of us. on tuesday they used our own planes to attack us, tomorrow they may use chemical warfare(assuming the have the funds, which i doubt). It is only a matter of time before they go to that extreme, i say we hit them before they have a chance to hit us again.

have you ever seen back to the future? i'm sure you have... remember how biff was always kicking george mcfly's ass because he never faught back? and after so many years of getting his ass kicked, george basically became biff's little bitch. biff knew that he could do whatever he wanted to george because he thought that geoge would never have the balls to fight back. that was all true until marty went back in time and george was able to fight back against biff. after george proved that he was capable of taking biff out, things changed big time. George no longer had to worry about the threat of biff. Well... what i'm trying to say is that we need to build a time machine and go back in time and buy a T-rex or two and then go to the drive in at mcdonalds and order like 2 million chicken nuggets, and then when we drive up to the window, we put the t-rex in the driver seat so we can hear the mexican lady scream and if we're lucky she'll pass out, hahaha, that would be funny.
 
remember how biff was always kicking george mcfly's ass because he never faught back? and after so many years of getting his ass kicked, george basically became biff's little bitch. biff knew that he could do whatever he wanted to george because he thought that geoge would never have the balls to fight back. that was all true until marty went back in time and george was able to fight back against biff. after george proved that he was capable of taking biff out, things changed big time. George no longer had to worry about the threat of biff.
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And in real life Biff would come and kick george's ass to get his wounded pride back, preferably with some friends. The myth that all it takes is to stand up to the bullies is ridiculous for most people who have been persuected. Most of the time all it does is to provoke harder retaliation... Of course you can do this, but you have to be prepared to end up in the hospital because of it...

Just a thought from one who's been persecuted most my life, and who has a lot of friends who has been too. Fighting back hurts a lot... (but of course you get the pleasure of hurting the other part as well). Just expect escalation most of the time...
 
so, you think that everytime the 'little guy' has stood up to the 'bully' he has ended up losing?

America's history is full of people standing up to the bullies of the world. Our country was founded by a group of 'little guys' that were tired of being mistreated and stood up to the 'big bully' (aka england). Not to mention all the trouble black people and women went/go through.(i'm not saying that these are related to the terrorist attacks in any way, i'm just saying that there have been happier endings in similar situations).

besides, if i'm going to live in pain, i would much rather the pain be caused by the fact that i'm sticking up for myself, instead of taking it like a bitch and never saying a word. i would rather have my pride than my health. sure, defending your pride might end up killing you, but whats the point of living if you have no self-worth?

if we ignore this problem, it will not go away, that i'm sure of.

anyways, i wasn't too serious about the whole back to the future thing, but it is a great movie, haha.
 
terrorists usually see themselves as the twisted and bullied george mcfly....and US as Biff...understandable, but not neccessarily justifiable.

the mentality of bullied victim, i find, is a cause of the perpetual conflicts. it's not a violent conflict between nations or religions, but more or less between actual living human beings that thinks, loves and bleeds like you and me alike
 
Eintrigga is quite right, we are not the little guy, here’s what I personally think is going to happen…

Within two weeks (probably more like seven days, as the American people will demand satisfaction) the United States is going to make a major strike against Afghanistan proven guilty or not; taking out all Military and Government buildings and probably destroying all of Kubal. There are no negatives to this plan politically and I wouldn’t be surprised if the decision has already been made; intelligence agents are already setting Afghanistan up for a fall in the press.

If we don’t find a villain soon then people are going to realize that this is as much our fault as the terrorist’s; our “Security” and “Intelligence” agencies have completely failed having let something like this happen, and because of it any number of innocent people have already and are going to die. The ironic thing is that more money will be thrown at these organizations because they didn’t do their job in the first place, that’s politics.

-Griffith
 
poor bush....man he's one unlucky prez...gore is prolly laughing his ass off right now and planning for a resurrection...
..ack, politic bastards


sometimes reality is such a bitch that i want to walk away and find myself a new world order....what hell am i talking about!? man, i really should stop fantasizing about leaving and creating a new world of sorts (i hate the concept of country)...ack, hope no one is freaked out...sheesh...

however... however...this is a good time for humanity's new savior to arise and deliver us away from potential mass destruction.... WHERE ARE YOU GRIFFITH!! :'(
 
bah! how many fingers am i holding again?  ;)
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Hopefully 5. I became so blatantly angry with that book by the end that I literally tore it in 5 different pieces and threw it into the trash. Thats just my opinion....
 
When I go online, this thread has alaways doubled/tripled in size. :o To read and consider all the posts is too much for my mind right now, but hopefully I can soon read them all. Excuse me if I repeat something thats already been discussed.

I was just curious...we aren't sure who commited this act of terrorism yet, but we have a few suspects (including one prime suspect.) I havent been watching the news a lot, but that is what I've gathered....

OK, if it is true that we have some suspects, I would like to know (since I don't keep up with history or politics) what motives those suspects had for crashing the planes? I mean, there is a possibilty that the whole group of terrorists have been drinking tainted water for a while and are literally insane, but its more likely that there are reasons why they chose to bomb the USA. I mean, the media makes this out to be an ideal america vs. evil terrorists but I'm pretty sure the story is more complex than that. So can someone let me know:
What motives did the suspects have for crashing the planes?
 
The obvious reason here is the anniversary of the US pulling out of a treaty discussion that involved the Middle East. The US are basically hipocrites when it comes to international affairs, but it makes sense business-wise (which is where the problem arises).

In summation, the terrorists want the US to get their hands out of Israel's aid. Besides that, the US has already fucked up more than once in its international affairs, and been rather harsh in its rulings. Bin Laden has been sitting on the sidelines steaming for years and years. What happened yesterday was the result of that.
 
...this world need a Griffith...this is true...

...come here...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We are waiting for you...

:o
 
My net friends, this is the dawning of a grim period in our history.
It stinks on doom. I wasn't so shocked since the war in my country ended. This is horrible. In a single day more people died than during the whole war in my country.
I only hope, and I know it is in vain, that this won't escalate into a major conflict. Russia is far too quiet on the matter, yet I know they would gladly support any attack on Afghanistan. America is far too strong for these people, and the outrage generated by these attacks demands retribution. But who can you bomb? Will the annihilation of Afghanistan solve national terrorism? And what if the islamic countries by some grotesque twist of fate unite...what if...you can make a lot of predictions, but the fact remains that in a single blow a man scarred the world. What possible punishment can satisfy the survived? On a personal note, I am sorry to say that I consider the Taleban unworthy of living on this planet, not only for their possible involvment with this tragedy, but for their whole insanely fanatic religion. Islam is not what they are. I don't know if you are aware of the sort of lives they lead, but let me say that the Taleban fathers often spray acid onto their daughters faces should those girls show their face to a stranger, or refuse to marry a man 30 years older. They electrocute their sisters if they so much as look another man, the have destroyed priceless monuments...maybe God's punishment will come in the form of US missiles. Not mine to judge anyway. I can only hope that the rescue teams in New York find as many survivors as possible, and that this incident won't provoke an even worse tragedy, which may involve far more countries than Afghanistan and the States.
 
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